As a 4X Founder, 4X Sales Leader, Strategic Advisor to multiple startups, and Chairman of Pavilion, Dalton Van Hatcher (Co-Founder at Hatchet Ventures) knows a thing or two about how to help founders reach their potential.
As a 4X Founder, 4X Sales Leader, Strategic Advisor to multiple startups, and Chairman of Pavilion, Dalton Van Hatcher (Co-Founder at Hatchet Ventures) knows a thing or two about how to help founders reach their potential.
Interested in more insights, industry best practices, and actionable content → connect with The Founders Formula Podcast!
Hatchet Ventures website: www.hatchetventures.com
Hatchet Ventures LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/hatchet-ventures/
Chet Lovegren’s LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/chetlovegren/
Dalton Van Hatcher’s LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/daltonvanhatcher/
Listen on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/36ub3fpy
Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/ystuxubt
Listen on Google Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/bdee8y9h
Chet: All right. Welcome one. Welcome all to the first official episode of the Founder's Formula podcast to show that is designed to bring you the latest and greatest stories and insights from founders worldwide, who have been. And done that. I'm excited to introduce my guest today, who is a four time founder, four time sales leader, strategic advisor to multiple startups chair, man, and ambassador of Pavilion. And he has the greatest mullet in the game. Dalton van Hatcher. Dalton, what's going on? Welcome to the show.
Dalton: Hey Chet, I'm really excited. Thanks for having me love what you're doing here. And, couldn't be more excited to to talk.
Chet: And above all else for those that are not aware, what's really exciting about episode this episode today is that Dalton is the co-founder of Hatchet Ventures, the sponsor of the founder's formula podcast. So we're really excited to have him here today to talk about his background, the founding story behind Hatchet, and then he's gonna deliver us some great insights, words of wisdom and golden nuggets for all of you founders out there yourself. So Dalton, as we kick off the episode, your LinkedIn headline, SDR to CRO. And I know folks are pretty curious about what that looks like at a high level and your journey of where you are today. So we'll dig into Hatchet Ventures, what it is who it helps and the founding story. But first I know everybody's curious to learn a little bit more about you. So tell us the story. Give us the deets man.
Yeah. Absolutely. I was lucky
Dalton: enough. I started my career at a company called BladeLogic under the legendary leadership of Dev Ittycheria, who's the the CEO at Mongo DB, and John McMahon who's the author of the Qualified Sales Leader. He's been a five time CRO he's on the board of lots of really successful companies like Snowflake computing.
But but yeah, I really started my career as an SDR. This is back in 2007 we were selling automation and compliance software. And I really had to learn and was thrown into enterprise sales from one of the best, the creator of MEDDIC was my first boss and mentor right outta the get go.
And so I had a fun journey going up through the ranks and learning different different points through my career. So being an SDR, being a sales rep, being an enterprise sales rep, being an SDR leader, building out corporate sales teams, then moving into, first line, second line leadership, and then working my way to CRO and really owning marketing customer success and all go to market functions now.
And so my career over, over about a 15 year span is, has, I've had a lot of different stops along the way where I've acquired a lot of different capabilities and skills from a go to market standpoint which has which has been truly blessed to have had that opportunity to learn from some of the best in the.
Chet: Yeah. And I, I think just from knowing you personally, as well as professionally, like I can see that I can see a lot of that experience and a lot of that acumen that you've gained over the years and the people that you've learned around and surround yourself with. And even when we talked past you, you talked about a personal advisory board and the concept of putting together people that can pour into your life and how awesome that is.
Like companies have advisory boards. Why don't people do it as much as well. And so even just those concepts, like it shows me why you're in the position you're in. Before we jump into Hatchet. I do want to hear from you based off those experiences, not only as a sales leader, an advisor, a four-time founder, I'm sure that's helped you continue to be successful when founding companies like Hatchet Ventures and helping other companies as well. But what specifically are like one or two key things you think you've picked up over that time where you're like, Hey, this is what has made me really successful as a founder and advisor.
Dalton: Yeah, absolutely. I think first and foremost, having a growth mindset really no one's successful alone. And so I was lucky enough where I, I started my career in, in, in the VC world. And so BladeLogic went through an IPO. We got acquired by BMC software at the time, which was one of the largest software companies in the world. So I was able to see really the differences between a startup and a much more mature, publically traded company.
And I think what I learned in that time, and since then, I, I started getting into back into early stage startups. I was an early employee at another company that went through an IPO called Sumo Logic, but really it was their pre-product pre-product launch, pre revenue. And so going through that experience from, being one of the first 20 employees and then having to go through which, which is now, it's a publicly traded company and doing that a couple of times early in my career really gave me a lot of experiences that that really helped me later build my own businesses and help other companies build their own businesses.
And I think a couple of the key learnings from that is really, surrounding yourself with good people that have done it before. So you can go try to hack things on your own, and it's gonna take you much longer. But agility and adaptability is key when it comes to building a business - speed, like how you process it, new information or data. And if you have a diversity of mindset and you have great people around you that have different, ways of solving a problem or looking at a problem, you're gonna naturally solve those problems faster. And when it comes to early stage startups, it's all about speed.
Chet: So a recurring theme here is like who you surround yourself with, your community, your network is your net worth learn from others, soak in all the information, I think also more importantly is when you learn from others, one thing I've recognized as a professional is that you learn that failure is not the worst thing. You know what I mean? Failure is an opportunity to grow. Like you called out growth mindset. And so that personal advisory board as well, to hit on those things where it's like, Tough love also but you need to grow here. This is a thing you can't continue to not succeed at.
And even, I think you've said to me in the past, also just recognizing that sometimes you're not gonna have all the answers and that's what your network is there for. That's what your community, that's what your people are there for is you don't have to have all the answers and you gotta really play your strengths.
Dalton: Hundred percent. Yeah. I would say that, failure is, is really where the learnings are and when learning starts is when you're when you leave your comfort zone and for founders it's a very, it's, you're constantly uncomfortable. You have to become comfortable with the uncomfortable and you're never gonna know the answers, and you're always gonna encounter things that you haven't done before.
And so having people who can teach you their stories on maybe where they fail. Or maybe how they do things differently, the next time, that's gonna increase your ability and, and we call that kind of controlling the controllables. If you can put yourself in a position where you can learn from someone else's failure, it's gonna it's, it's gonna eliminate the possibility of you going down that same rabbit hole.
Chet: Yeah, I love it. And so I think this is a good segue into Hatchet Ventures itself. Can you tell me the story of Hatchet Ventures and a little bit about what is Hatchet Ventures? Exactly. How did the company come together at the time? It did, what are some of the problems you solve for your partners? Who are your partners? And then of course, dig into the founding story. Like, how is this something where you're like, Hey, this needs to exist. I'm gonna. I'm gonna go co-create this with someone like give us the whole rundown about Hatchet.
Dalton: Yeah. So for my personal side being a co-founder of Hatchet actually my wife, Jessica Van Hatcheter, who is a CRO of a manufacturing company she helped co-found this company with me, but one of the things that we both learned early on in our business experience is that
I actually I, I got into advising about three or four years ago. And one of the things I learned is that, when you're, when you're talking about cap tables and you're talking about equity and trading in, basically equity for knowledge or for solving problems,
that's really what founders have. That's one asset they have. Cash is really tough when you're bootstrapped or when you're starting out and you're early. Especially if you if you have other jobs that you're leaving and you really, In order to be successful, you really have to go all in on this mission and on this story.
And so the one asset you have as a founder is equity. And so what I learned in advising, so I was helping one of my good friends who's also in Hatchet Ventures and has been a great success story. I helped us start that business is Edge Delta. And we went through, a seed round and a Series A and we recently just raised a 63 million Series B which is, great success, success stories.
But one of the things that I found is that you truly have to be smart about your, your equity and what you give. And if you're gonna acquire talent, talent is people is, is definitely like if you ask anyone who's been successful, it's all about people. And so in order to get good people, you're gonna have to have equity.
So when you're able to give out equity, you really have to make that equity work for you have a return on investment. And so one of the things I also noticed is founding companies, myself, I help found Us In Technology with Kendrick Trotter, who's also a part of Hatchet Ventures and they're one of our portfolio companies, but as we are bootstrapping and we're doing close to a million dollars now annually in revenue, completely bootstrapped with two of us three of us at the beginning.
And grew that out. One of the things that we found when raising capital is that, and through advising, vCs are really interested in in, in investing in more fundable companies. But one of the things that I noticed when I've spent a lot of time advising is there, aren't a lot of great resources out there for founders to make their companies more fundable or more investible.
And so one of the the, one of the areas that I thought when I thought of Hatchet and was talking to my wife, Jessica is, what if we brought a group of people together who, really understand the problem and understand what's needed to make a successful company and helped founders become more investible or more fundable.
And so that's really the story behind Hatchet is we're a group of there's 44 of us active right now. They're, they're founders, they're advisors, there's people who've been through exits they're people who've led large GTM enterprise teams, they're operators, their attorneys their CFOs, they're thought leaders in the RevOps space. And so what these people do is they is we come in and we really work with companies through taking equity instead of investing capital. And one of the core reasons behind that is what I found in starting my own business, and then also through raising capital is a lot of times, you're not gonna there's questions you need to ask or things you need to know that you're not gonna wanna disclose to your investors.
And so having a group of people, AKA advisors is really important. And when you have advisors, they're really there for the long haul. But one of the challenges on having advisors is a lot of times those advisors only have one skill set. So you're giving up a pretty significant amount of cap or of equity to someone who's solving, maybe one problem.
And you're hoping they solve a couple more, but that's one of the reasons we started Hatchet is giving these founders better tools and better diverse mindset of solving problems with people who have done it before. But we take equity and for the cost of what one advisor would cost, you get 44 and they all have all different skill sets and superpowers that are gonna help you when you need. You're gonna need different tool sets and mindsets and skill sets at different times. And that's really what Hatchet is.
Chet: Yeah. And also what's interesting is how, you, co-founded the company with your wife. And I say that because I know there are, like, there are probably quite a few husband and wife duos out there, or partner duos, that are listening and are like, Or people that are like, Hey, we should go start this thing together. And it's should we, do you mix family and business? How does that work? I, myself being someone who's worked alongside my wife in one capacity or another professionally and also released a product that, it never really went anywhere. It did something for us at the time, but it didn't like it didn't amount to probably the success that you've seen in some of your companies. I'm curious to hear what's are some of the strengths. You and Jess feel that compliment your working styles with one another. What are some things that you feed off of each other that you see professionally where you're like, this is great.
Dalton: Absolutely. So first and foremost, my wife has much more creative and artistic mind. So that, that definitely helps when it comes to branding marketing. And she's very, she's excellent in that arena. So that compliments a lot of my, sales skills that I've acquired over the years and customer success skills. I do think that one of the things that's really unique about Jessica and why we decided to do this together is she comes from the manufacturing and industrial world. And so a lot of those companies tech is not as prevalent in those areas, but the, in the world today, especially after COVID and what's going on and with supply chains companies and VCs are really
interested in companies that are solving what we call real world problems more of like, how do we fix, how do we, sustainability, how do we fix supply chains, I issues, and really get back to making the world a smaller place. It was, becoming smaller than COVID made the world a bigger place and now people are trying make it small again. But I think that she brings an an interesting perspective and it really goes back to the core foundation of why Hatchet is uniquely positioned to help people is we have people from manufacturing. We have people from healthcare and health tech. We have people from consumer based products.
We have people from sustainability. And what's really cool about that, and my wife and I are a great example of this is you get a diversity of mindset on how to solve problems. And so when you can really solve problems and you can see how other industries and other people in other industries solve similar problems, problems are always the same people, process, and technology.
But when you have different looks at it, you become a better problem solver. And from my experience of being successful and building companies and going through IPOs, the best companies in the world are the best problem solvers. So new challenges arrive, and new, new new things pop up all the time.
And do you have the ability to solve that problem quickly? And that's really what it comes down to.
Chet: Yeah. And I can be a Testament to how much Dalton values her opinion in terms of creativity. Cuz anytime I'd send him some branding stuff, he's okay, that's cool. And then all of a sudden he'd come back and he'd go, oh my wife loved it.
And then he was really jazzed up for it. So you know that's the stamp of approval is that if Jess says it's good to go - we're good to go.
Dalton: Yeah. If she says it's not good to go - then we have a problem.
Chet: I love that though. And I think it's it just reminds me of like sales specifically, like how. You pivot expertise, let's say you're selling to CROs and the person you're talking to might have been a two time VP, maybe they're in their first CRO job or something of that nature. And if they've been in the same industry, like they have three, maybe four companies of industry experience.
Whereas if you're selling in that industry, you have 80 to a hundred to, depending on the company size 700 customers experience to speak from. And I think that's, what's so cool about Hatchet that I've recognized is it's not, like you said, it's not one RevOps person that you're paying a portion of equity or even paying some consulting cash upfront to get those questions answered that they don't want to ask anybody else or bring to their investors. You have people from all walks of life, all different functions who have all of those years of experience. Collectively you have like 2,500 years of experience in the room in all these different areas. And that's that idea of community and networking and your advisory board. It's so important. So I think that's what, in my opinion, from what I've seen really separates Hatchet is that it's not just oh, we specialize in RevOps or, Hey, we specialize in legal. It's dude, we got everything. You know what I mean? Anything you could probably be thinking about or be having, or, need consultation on like we're there for you, and I think you've done a great job of leveraging your network to vet those professionals and bring a slew of what you said nearly over 40 individuals. We're at 40, almost at 50?
Dalton: Absolutely. And I think one of the things that I would you know, advice I'd give to any founders out there who are, looking to build and take capital or investment. The investors are really gonna judge you on your ability to solve problems, but also they're really betting on the team. If there's a problem and there's money to be made and there's a return on investment by virtue, that's that, that's a big indicator that someone would probably invest in it, but what they're really betting on an early stage VC is on the team.
Can that team execute? And so if you have a bigger team that has more experience and has more success, you're automatically in a better position to execute on things. And a lot of founders and even myself, when we were starting Us In Tech and some of the other companies I've started it.
It was a challenge to to acquire the, it took me a while to go and find the right people to, help me with those problems. And so I've the, those people who have, who've been very helpful, they're very good. I've held onto those people. And a lot of those same people are in Hatchet because we've, built this formula, if you will, where you, you need these certain aspects of building. And it's not just, always marketing in sales, it's, operational efficiencies, it's, embedding RevOps early it's understanding customer success and experiencing the customer journey. And it's also legal, like a lot of times just like legally, how are you gonna structure things?
And for that journey it's very difficult. And so you'd never want to do this alone. And so we think by providing this model and the ROI that that comes with that, we can really help these founders build better businesses with a better ROI.
Chet: Yeah. And we're seeing it in the portfolio, Us In Tech, I think is a very good example. And we have we'll have Kendrick on a future episode to talk a little bit more about, about that and the company and his story, which I'm excited for as well. But you can see it and the results. I'm gonna put you a little bit on the spot here, cause I'm interested as someone who's not only been a sales leader four times over.
Also current advisor and has been an advisor in the past for other companies, but also has companies that you're advising right now, outside of Hatchet, as well as inside a Hatchet and then being a four-time founder. What about starting like this kind of model, which was new to you, was challenging? What was like the thing where we talk about failure and learning, what was that learning moment for you as you were founding Hatchet that you think was interesting that you hadn't experienced four times in the past?
Dalton: Yeah, I think that that the hardest part of of, building a community is. Getting the right people. And if you have really good people, those problems, a lot of times take care of themselves. And I would say that after helping build out Pavilion. So when I started at Pavilion, it was about 700 members.
And now we have over 9,000 on, all, all cont six probably of the continents, but not Antarticta. Maybe. But I think that in the, in learning, going through that process and then also building the Us In Tech community, it really is about the people. And when I Jess and I started building Hatchet, we were really intentional about the right type of people. And the people that are in that are in Hatchet, have a bias for action, a bias for help.
And they also are builders. And so when builders talk to another builder, they understand each other. And it's a lot of the people that you've had on your show, some of the folks you've had on your show, and then a lot of the people in our portfolio, when you meet those people you, a lot of times you feel like you've known them for a long time, because you look, you view the world very similarly, but you have differences.
You came from a different background or have a different perspective on how you grew up or how you were influenced in your work. But at the end of the day, Anyone who's an early stage. Venture is a builder. And getting a group of builders and really, each, each company is gonna be built to their own.
Their house is gonna be custom to them and how they view it. But getting other people's perspective may change or may make you think about something differently. And so the learnings, I would say is really just making sure you get the right people. And, and spending the time on that and, it goes to building businesses.
So a lot of companies struggle in, early days with with talent with people or they think they perceive it as product market fit, or they perceive it as other challenges, but really it comes down to the people. If you find the best people who can really truly help you. It's going to accelerate everything.
And so that, that was a big learning for me, was making sure I was very intentional about who we're going to get and making sure also that it was a diverse mindset, but also diverse in skillset. And that was a big learning that I found from us in tech was we were at the beginning we had a lot of advisors, but they had a lot of similar skill sets And one of the things that I learned there was like, we really need to make sure that we acquire different skill sets into our advisory. And that, that was a big learning for us. And it's, I've applied that to Hatchet.
Chet: That's awesome. And in terms of what you're talking about, those, those companies that are, in the, in the mode where Hatchet helps, like if I was to come to you and I was a first time founder and I was like, Hey here's all my problems. Here's all my stuff. And this is what I'm going through. And thinking specifically, probably to like seeking investment. What's some advice you would give me with the uncertain times ahead. And I say uncertain when. We know what's gonna happen. It just hasn't happened yet. So when we say uncertainty, like we all know what's gonna happen, we just have to have it happen. But what kind of advice would you give in like a consultation session? High level? If I was like, Hey, I'm seeking investment first time founder, but I'm nervous about what's going on in the market. What would be Dalton's word of wisdom?
Dalton: Yeah, absolutely. I would say when it comes to business to business, which a lot of the companies we work with are, but we do work with business to consumer too, which is just a different, it's a different beast. But what I would say is that people only buy a business to business solution for two reasons, one to make money or to save money. And when it comes to investment by virtue you're really taking a loan.
And then, there's an expectation of a return on investment at some point. And so what I would say is you really have to think about. How are you helping companies solve that problem, which is make money. Or save money. And when, when it comes to, working with that with the Hatchet Ventures portfolio, when it comes to being investible we, we spend a lot of time on what we call the mantras.
Like what is the before state of this of the problem you're trying to solve and what are the negative consequences of that? What's the after state that you're proposing that people want to get to and what are the positive business outcomes that happen from that then what are the required capabilities for those people to get there? How do you do it at your company and how do you do it better than anyone else and what are some key proof points and why are, why is this team the best position to to, to go and tackle that problem? And if you can formulate your pitch in that manner, it's gonna automatically be more investible because people naturally have a short attention span. And so you have to really captivate that and speak the language of investment and investment truly is investment. And so that, that's the advice I give to any founders is work on, really.
Boiling this down and simplifying it. And the common mistake that most founders make is they overcomplicate things, cuz they're an expert at what they do and what they know. But that doesn't mean that someone on the receiving end is gonna understand that. And so most of the time that we spend it, the beginning stage phase one is helping our founders formulate that story. So it becomes more investable.
Chet: Yeah. And I could totally see that as someone who's really entrenched in sales and leadership, if I was to like, try to solve a problem in sales of leadership, I can imagine going to a real estate tycoon who doesn't really bother with that. And just being like, look at all this stuff.
And they're like, dude talking about stuff, that's way over my head. Just give, gimme the high level stuff, give the outline, sell me on you and the team you put in front of you, , you can definitely see that being a struggle. It seems with, with all the talk about the economic downturn, that people are worried about this and people are being tighter with their pocket books and maybe to some extent, but through what I've seen through Hatchet, it looks like in terms of the pre-seed and seed, like things are going great for everyone, right?
Like people are out here raising money. It's probably really the growth stage companies that might have a little bit more sales pressure on them. What are you seeing in the market right now as of, August 20, 22 in terms of, Investing rounds and funding being raised at a earlier stage startup.
Dalton: Yeah, I think initially there was kind of some, some pause that happened, but what I'm seeing most recently is it's really starting to pick up again on early on the early stage. And so what I've seen in the market is a lot of a lot of bigger firms started investing earlier in companies and doing larger rounds.
And I think with this kind of great reset and, inflation and how we look at evaluations of comp or evaluations of companies, there, definitely a little bit of a reset, especially in the tech sector around that. But what I would say is there's still a need and always will be to to invest in the right team early.
And that's why I'm excited about the opportunity to Hatchet and why we've had a lot of success in the short time we've been around and working with companies is. Is, is we're really giving them the skillsets to, go and, and brokering the introductions to make them inve to get the investment.
But I think from an investment standpoint, you're gonna see more and more VCs enter into earlier stage companies. And it's been that way for the last four or five years. And I think with added pressure from overseas, the domestic venture capital world is really gonna continue to move downstream, meaning go invest in companies at earlier stages.
And so what that means for founders is you really have to start thinking about the tool sets that you have and the knowledge you acquire to build a better business. Because those companies amazing VCs are out there investing in really early stage and in pre-seed rounds now.
And I think that at the end of the day, founders have to remember that when a VC invested you they're gonna offer help and they are gonna offer some resources, but it's really up to you as a founder to go and build the business you want to build. They're not gonna build it for you. And having, things like Hatchet and other resources, Founders Institute, and other, there's a lot of different resources out there that will help you formulate ideas.
At the endof the day it is really important that you surround yourself with people. Whether it's through Hatchet or not, With people that have done it before. And that's the most important thing.
Chet: Yeah, and I can just in closing, I can speak as a testament to that. Just in the, in the, the, how much we appreciate at the Founder's Formula Podcast, having Hatchet as a sponsor and the stuff that we've been able to work through, and even the stuff you've been able to help us with launch, and the, some of the story and some of the concepts and the calls you've jumped on to help craft that.
For what it's worth Founder's Formula is not a it's not an early stage startup or a high growth company, but Dalton definitely, he definitely knows his stuff. And he's been able to provide a lot of value even to just our measly little podcast in terms of just helping us craft that story and get off the ground and be able to, Just really, really get off the ground running like the sales RX podcast is great, but the, the kickstart that we've already had at Founder's Formula and what we've been able to see is, has been awesome so far.
And so really glad to have you all on the inaugural episode of the podcast is our very beloved sponsors. And in closing Dalton any words of wisdom, any pieces of advice that you would want to give the listen.
Dalton: Yeah, absolutely. So in this kind of reset, that's happening right now, quality of revenue and your ability to make a dollar and like how much it costs to make that dollar is gonna be the end, all be all and what people value the most.
And I do think obviously you have to have a big addressable market and there needs to be product market fit, but there's a big reset around quality revenue. And what that means is you really, as a founder, you really have to be good and lean and smart about how you build and bootstrapping. I think a little bit had some negative con connotation to it.
A couple, maybe a couple years ago before COVID in today's world. It is. It's, it's valued it's uniquely valued. And so what I would tell all the founders out there is really start thinking about quality revenue and how you're gonna build a lean business and operationally sound and operationally efficient business.
And I would advise to lean on really good operators and people have done it before to help you through that problem, because if you wanna be investible, it really is gonna come down to execution and quality of revenue. And that's how I for any if for any founder out there, really starting to think about that early is gonna help you in the.
Chet: I love it. Quality of the dollar. That's gonna go in the that's gonna go in the takeaway deck that we publish on LinkedIn. That's gonna be the quote. The quality of the dollar is more important now, never Dalton, we'll put in the show notes, how everybody can connect with the Founder's Formula podcast, how they can connect with you and connect with Hatchet. But if they need a more personalized touch, how can people reach out to you or Hatchet Ventures for possibly consultation or just to connect and grow their network and be part of what you're.
Dalton: Yeah, absolutely. So Dalton at hatchetventures.com D A L T O N, at hatchetventures.com also on LinkedIn. Dalton van Hatcher is my name on LinkedIn. So feel free to, to message me there, if you wanna send me a note or to info at hatchetventures.com, we're about to launch our website here in the next week or two, but we're really excited we're we are working, we have about 12 portfolio companies already and that's continuing to grow week by week.
So we're really excited and have had a lot of success stories and help people raise funds. And the short existence we've had. So really excited about that, but appreciate your time today, Chet, and what you're doing. I love the podcast giving founders more insights into how to build a better business is really gonna help create more access and more availability for founders in the market. So I'm really excited about what we're doing here.
Chet: Yeah. And it's crazy, cuz for those of you that don't know, give you a little insight on the founding of Founder's Formula, I had this concept when I was doing my other podcast where I was just like, I really love people's stories and I really wanna learn more from founders because that's, what's really exciting to me is entrepreneurship and founder.
And how, not only they got to where they were, but how they got the company where they were then Dalton, and I recorded for my previous podcast, a Sales RX podcast, and Dalton had the soundbite where he was talking about I'm really obsessed with people and their stories and how things came to be. And after the podcast, Dalton, I think we talked for 30 minutes about this concept for a founder's podcast and all these things, and you were super encouraging and did everything you could to see me grow in that.
So that was awesome. So again, speaking as a testament to the efficiency of Hatchet Ventures, there you go, folks. That's where we. So encourage you to reach out and likewise, Dalton, I appreciate your time and your consideration today in spreading the insights and giving the knowledge to our listenership.
So thank you so much.
Dalton: Thanks, Chet. Appreciate it.