In today’s episode, we talked with James Oliver, 3X Founder and CEO/Co-Founder at Kabila, about connecting the dots for investors and how helping those around us can better build our network and founder success.
In today’s episode, we talked with James Oliver, 3X Founder and CEO/Co-Founder at Kabila, about connecting the dots for investors and how helping those around us can better build our network and founder success.
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Hatchet Ventures website: https://www.hatchetventures.com
Hatchet Ventures LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hatchet-ventures/
Chet Lovegren’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chetlovegren/
Connect with James Oliver on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-oliver-jr/
Check out Kabila’s Website: https://www.joinkabila.com/
Listen on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/36ub3fpy
Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/ystuxubt
Listen on Google Podcasts:
[00:00:00] Narrator: 1, 2, 3, 4. Are you a founder, co-founder, aspiring entrepreneur, or just someone who loves to hear about how companies are built? Then join us as we talk with founders and CEOs who have been there and done that. Welcome to the Founder's Formula Podcast. Sponsored by Hatchet Ventures and now your host, Chet Lovegren
[00:00:32] Chet: All right, welcome one. Welcome all to the Founder's Formula podcast, sponsored by Hatchet Ventures, the show that is designed to bring you the latest and greatest insights from founders and CEOs worldwide who have been there and done that. I'm your host, Chet Lovegren, and I'm here today with a three time founder, author and co-founder and CEO of Kabila a co-founder matching app and community for tech startup founders to help them not only be better founders, but better humans. Please welcome to the show, James Oliver Jr. James, what's going on? How we doing
[00:01:06] James: today? My man? I'm doing fantastic. Thanks so much for having me.
[00:01:09] Chet: Oh, I'm a, I'm absolutely ecstatic to be talking with you today and we're definitely going to dig into Kabila and some of your experiences, but really I want to paint the story and paint the narrative for your background as a professional up to the point of founding your first company. Because I know you're a three time founder, so Kabila is your third time around.
Right? Third time's a charm. So we'll definitely get into that story. Yeah. We hope, right? , here we go. I love. I love it. This is gonna be a good one, folks. So let's, let's talk about James. James fill us in. Who is James? What's your experience up to the, up to being a founder?
[00:01:43] James: Man, you know, I hate talking about myself,
Uh, I just do, um, who am I? I'm a dad of twins, um, Zoe and Thaddeus, or they'll be 10 in January. Um, you know, I'm an entrepreneur. I am also founder and c e o of the parent preneur found. , which is a foundation I started during covid to empower black parent so they can leave a legacy with their beautiful black children or for their beautiful black children.
That's been amazing. Going really well. We've given away, you know, probably a hundred thousand dollars in grants and paid for 320 mental therapy sessions for the founders in our communities and all these things like we just gave away, uh, paid for virtual assistance for three months for I think 12 members of our community.
Done so many incredible things there. So that's one thing. But, um, yeah, I mean I got started on my journey as a founder back in 2012 ish. I was living in Wisconsin, middle of nowhere and, um, in small town called Nina, Nina slash Appleton, and I was trying to launch my first startup, which is We Montage. Um, we montage.com was the world's only website.
I think it still is, world's only website. There will let you turn your digital images into removable photo wallpaper. As a collage, like you could cover the whole wall with the pictures from your phone, for example. Um, so we created this, you know, algorithm that lets you do that and, you know, clean out my savings at the time.
Um, Man, it's a long story. Which part of the story do you want me to focus on, bro? I could go on and on and on. , just tell what you, what do you wanna know? Tell me .
[00:03:26] Chet: Yeah, I, well, I think I'd love to hear, I mean, I know that you were a sales and marketing manager. You were a, a CEO of a lifestyle magazine prior to that.
Like what were some things you learned in those roles that helped you as a first time founder with, with We Montage?
[00:03:41] James: You know, um, so that first magazine, wow. That. He brought that up. The holy cow was back 2000 3, 4 5. It was after I graduated business school. I was trying to launch a digital lifestyle magazine for black golf enthusiasts at the time, and this was in a pre iPad era, and I just, looked to completely blow up the whole printing business model by, I'm like looking and like, yeah, the cost of printing and shipping these magazines is ridiculous.
At the time, a lot of the big magazines were going to digital delivery using this platform called Xenio. I don't know if that's still around. Probably not. But people thought I was crazy. Not so crazy now is it. So, um, you know, that was my first taste of being an entrepreneur that was so hard, just couldn't get any traction with it.
I mean, but you know, the sales thing, you know, if you're the c e o of a startup, like you better know how to sell something. Uh, I'm at done sales off and on several different times. I'm very comfortable doing that and, you know, don't take rejection personally and extremely persistent and resilient and, you know, those are characteristics you need to have if you're going to be a founder.
Particularly, you know, on the business and biz dev side of things. Maybe less so if you're, you know, you're a CTO or developer and you have somebody that's doing that other side of the business for you. But, um, yeah, I mean, I've just always done sales for a long time and, you know, I build relationships pretty easily, easily and have the ability to per persuade people. Um, so yeah, that, that's, that's always helpful.
[00:05:28] Chet: Yeah. And so you're, you're a three time founder and I'm curious to hear from you as someone, obviously, you know, that sales side, having that, you know, you weren't like a product person who didn't know how to have a one-on-one interaction. , like, like, you know, the, the traditional like the Mark Zuckerbergs, I call 'em, right.
They have to go find people with that go-to-market experience and, and one-on-one relationship building experience. What was, I guess, Looking back on it now, when you founded We Montage, let's bring it back then. What was one of the biggest challenges you had when you were a first time founder as you were building that company, that you kinda learned that lesson time and time again, that you're taking into your third company now?
[00:06:05] James: Oh, oh man. You know, that was a really unique experience. Um, So two days before I was going into an accelerator, I was in generator in their winter 2013 class in Madison, Wisconsin. And two days before that started, my twins, we had to do an emergency delivery. Uh, they were three months early. They only weighed two pounds a piece, and the accelerator was a two hour drive each way.
So, uh, that was really hard. Um, and I was a non-technical. Building something that required a lot of custom software and I didn't know how to code. Like, who does that? It's crazy, right? But that's, this guy right here did that. Um, so you know, if, if you wanna go into an accelerator, look, most of the accelerators won't even accept you if you're not--
if you're a solo founder or if you don't have a strong team of people working with you, right? You could be a founder, a solo founder, but unless you have like some developers working with you and some advisors, like they're probably not gonna select you because you know these investors, they're all looking to de-risk their investment.
And if they're a good program, they probably have a couple hundred applicants and they have people with good ideas and good teams, and. Don't, don't, don't need to pick you. Right. So, um, so that was really hard. Um, so now fast forward to today, and I, you know, launching Kabila you know, we just finished Techstars Austin and, you know, we went in with a team.
Right? Um, uh, so I have a technical co-founder cto, so I don't have to do all the things. I don't have to worry about that now. So that was a very, very valuable lesson I learned there, and I'm thankful for having done that.
[00:08:02] Chet: That's awesome. Let's talk about Kabila a little bit. How did this idea come about? How did you start building it? What kind of spurred you to go, Hey, this is something that needs to exist. I don't see it existing anywhere else the way that it does, maybe the way that I envision it. Give us the founding story of Kabila and kind of where you're at today.
[00:08:20] James: Yeah, so in part it was when I went was doing WeMontage.
I didn't have a co-founder and we ended up having to use the local community network to find a developer to help me build the product. Um, but now, you know, when I was working on the Parentpreneur Foundation, I was sitting in these, these rooms where people were trying to figure out how to get, um, these LPs managing like billions of dollars.
All trying to figure out how to get more capital to emerging VCs who will in turn invest in more underrepresented or underestimated founders like myself. And while we know the data consistently show that, you know, VCs are just simply not doing it, um, you know, uh, the last round of data that came out is from PitchBook or Crunchbase or whatever.
I think black founders got point three six, or three four, or whatever, less than point four percent of VC funding, uh, in the last, in Q3 of 2022. And women founders, you know, less than two percent and so, like when VC you know, catches a cold underrepresented, founders get, get COVID , forget about the, the flu. They get COVID uh, but you know, people like Adam Newman can still roll up on the back of a napkin and raise 350 million or whatever it was, which was, I don't know, some multiple of what black founders raised for the entire year. It's just stupid, right?
So, on an idea that's fizzling out right now with everything that's going on. Is it? I don't know.
I also right that, and maybe that was somebody else's idea that he invested. I don't know. I don't wanna get in trouble cause whatever. I don't wanna talk about that guy. I got a friend who went on TV and was talking about that and she said one word and she got in big trouble.
So I don't want, I don't wanna talk about that dude. Um, So I'm sitting in these rooms and I'm like, pondering the future. I'm like, look, you have all these really smart, deep pocketed people looking to solve this problem. And these accelerators spinning up specifically for BIPOC founders all over the place.
And I'm like, it might not be good today. And oh, by the way, founder teams made up of more than one gender, race, or ethnicity also actually happen to give a 30% greater return to their investors than the homogenous, mostly male, mostly white co-founder teams we see today. So I'm like, all right, five, ten years from now, this dam is gonna break.
And co-founder teams made up of people from all backgrounds will have a capital raising superpower and when it happens, Kabila is going to be standing right in the middle of it with access to the most badass, inclusive co-founder teams on the planet.
[00:11:12] Chet: That's awesome and yeah, I love that you, you're armed with the statistics cuz that's important, right?
The data, the data is worth everything. Um, being in sales and sales leadership, anytime I look at an organization and I'm like, wow, where, where is all the female sales leadership, knowing that, you know, female sales leaders typically outperform their male counterparts by 8%. Like that's a big revenue number for a company.
You think about a company, I mean, Adding 8% month over month or quarter over quarter, however you wanna measure. Yeah, that's, that's a really important thing. Um, so James, I would love to talk a little bit more about Kabila and more importantly, your co-founder, Caleb, how the two of you met and kind of that synergy there.
So let's, let's dig into that with your co-founder a little bit.
[00:11:50] James: Yeah, for sure. So a lot of my success these days is because of my mindset of giving first. Um, You know, I went through Techstars and you know, Give First is kind of the mindset with all that. And I read an amazing book called Give and Take by Adam Grant, which I would definitely recommend everybody read um, and because of the work I was doing in the Parentpreneur Foundation, and I ended up collaborating with, you know, a program, a Techstars program here in Atlanta for some women founders. And I was in, uh, at the demo day and I was in a room with one of the founders in my foundation community, and she introduced me to a guy who showed up in her room after her pitch.
And, you know, a couple months later he reached out to me. And my memory's terrible, right? Because I have kids. I used to be a lot smarter before I had kids, you know, I called them, you know, dwarf brain, self deves, my kids. Um, but I was drinking a lot less wine back then too. So, I had more bread and more brain cells in general.
Um, but, uh, his name is Matt. He reached out to me a couple months later and I, I couldn't remember how I met him, you know, so he told me and I apologized. I'm like, oh man. So he told me he was working on something. I'm like, Hey, cool. I'm game to hop on a call and see what you're working on and see how I can help.
So all this like me helping people, right? And then at the time I was looking for a technical co-founder and he was like, yo, I have the perfect person for you. I was like, wait.
what He's like, yeah, he works for me and, um, I think he'll be perfect for you. I'm like, okay. So I, I met, I met him and then I had one of my good guys who's like OG a developer, runs a dev agency, um, interview him and he was like, yo, you need to lock this, this this guy down asap. And so we were just building a relationship and you know, next thing you know, you know, we ended up at Techstars and, um, I mean, I just left Atlanta Tech Village.
Working with him there. We just joined two weeks ago, so we worked there, you know, once or twice a week together, and he's amazing. So the, the short answer to how I met him was through my network, but the overarching answer is because of my pension for giving to others, which I think is really important.
And I think that early stage founders, they miss that piece. Um, because everybody's so focused on trying to get, get, get, get, get, get. You can't, you know, take out the universe that what you don't put into it, , you know, you have to give. And it feel, I feel like they don't have a lot to give. Ah, I need customers.
I don't, I need money. I need, I need, I need. Yeah. But what about other people? Like, other people need stuff too. You know, you can share your friend's content on social media, like everybody knows how that game's played, right? That's something that's helpful. You can give a kind word. You can hold a door for a stranger.
You can pay a stranger a compliment, right? You can connect people where you see the connections need to happen. But when you do that, make sure you make those introductions. Double opt-in. Chet you know, we're talking and I'm like, oh man, I got the perfect guy to help you blow up this podcast. Let me go on LinkedIn right now and send a message connecting the two of y'all without checking in with that person first.
That's a huge no-no, you don't do that because invariably what happens with that is the other person's caught off guard. They may not want to, he might not want it. He or she might not wanna talk to each other. He's like, why are you connecting me with this dude? And people have done that to me before and I don't even respond.
I don't wanna talk to this dude. Um, but that's just me. But anyway, do double optin intros, I promise. That's the proper way to build relationships and connections and social capital. Um, so if you're, but if you're, the point is if you're an early stage founder, you have a lot to give and a magical thing happens when you.
Getting the mindset of giving people see you giving and then they start to give to you and then you start to get the things that you need. So I think it's important to give very important, and founders need to keep that in mind and and ditch the scarcity mindset.
[00:15:57] Chet: Yeah. This is, I I can tell that you do a lot of podcasting cuz you just segued into my next topic very well,
[00:16:04] James: I had no idea what the next topic was, so That was luck, bro.
[00:16:07] Chet: It was, that was amazing. It was like the second you started talking about that, I was like, oh my God, he's reading my mind right now. Um, I wanna, I wanna talk, and especially I wanna talk to you about this since you are a three time founder and you work with matching co-founders and you, you're involved with a lot of startups, I want to.
What are some things that first time founders often overlook when starting a company? And I love how you just pointed out, you gotta have a pension for giving, you gotta, you know, feed your community, those kinds of things. What is something else that you would say is often overlooked from first time founders?
[00:16:39] James: Um, you know, so this is interesting because, uh, this morning I had a conversation with, uh, and I apologize for all the Techstars references, but I have like deep relationships with Techstars and the co-founders, and they supported the work that I do at the Parentpreneur Foundation. Um, but I was talking with the New York City managing director today about three things he thought underrepresented founders should be doing to raise money in the current fundraising environment.
Right. And it's, and it's because like I. When VC catches a cold underrepresented founders get covid. Right. It's crazy to say, but it is true. Um, so one of the things that we talked about on this call this morning, and I talked about this in my Kabila community, uh, I mean I talk about these things all the time and investors, they invest in lines, not dots.
So if the first conversation you have with investor is you're asking them for money, you failed.
You have to connect dots, you have to build the relationship. And I can tell you, so we just, you know, we raised, uh, we got an investment from Gain Angels. Gain Angels is bomb as Angel Investment Group. It happened pretty fast, like in a couple of weeks, maybe three weeks, but it was like these series of very intense touchpoints and them getting to know me in a meaningful way and me giving to them and what they were doing.
Right. They had an event here in Atlanta, I. Helped promote it to some of the entrepreneurs in my Kabila community, my foundation community on social media that I knew to help them do what they want to do. So here again, like these guys are big time investors. Like, so the so inclination for a founder to think is like, oh, what can I do to help them?
That's the absolute wrong mindset. Right. Just be smart about it. Like if they're having an event, you know, they want founders to show up to their event, right? So don't go ask the question, think about how you can help, and then find a way to come back and be helpful. You have to connect the dots for investors.
You can't just show up and throw up and think somebody's gonna write you a check. Uh, it doesn't work that way.
[00:19:13] Chet: Yeah, I agree. And I, they've heard similar things before that some people aren't, even, some founders I've, I've talked to aren't even trying to talk to investors right now that they want to invest in their current round.
They're trying to plant seeds for the future. They're thinking three steps ahead and a hundred percent. The more and more even, uh, the last episode that we, we released, which gentleman was talking about, you know, safes and convertible notes and like putting off legal stuff, you know, and it, how important it was that he's glad he got out in front of it when he did, but he did let it go too long cuz he wasn't thinking those three steps ahead about how that was gonna translate into his business.
He says, I get it. Legal isn't incredibly sexy, right? It's not as fun as building products and, and having conversations. But that's great and. Matching co-founders with one another. I personally am a firm believer of having honest conflict over dishonest harmony, and I know that working with people can be complicated.
How do you nurture and manage relationships or see good nurtured and managed relationships between co-founders so that neither gets burnout too quick and synergies are built well and companies are successful? Because I'm sure two different people typically too, if you're talking about a go-to-market leader, like a non-technical founder and a technical founder coming together.
There can be a, a lot of differences in backgrounds and mm-hmm. ideologies and things of that nature. What are some tips or some advice that you give to co-founders in your community when talking about building that synergy between co-founders and that partnership?
[00:20:43] James: Uh, so let me, before I answer that question, I'm gonna go back to your last question.
Another thing that's really important when we're talking about building relationships with investors, is, you know, I send weekly investor updates. When you do that, that's a way for you to, again, connect the dots and create lines for people, A way for people to begin to trust in your ability to execute, to do what you say you're going to do.
And I hear time and time again like people do that and somebody maybe ghosted them, haven't heard from a long time. We'll reach back, Hey, you know, I see it. You're making such great progress. Let's have a call. Right? So send your investor updates. You know, there's different platforms, platforms you can use for that.
I happen to use Paper Street, Paper Street vc. Good platform for that. Um, so now to your question about cultivating relationships, With the co-founder. Um, yo like finding a co-founder is hard. It's like finding a spouse. Right? That doesn't work half the time, right? Yep.
50% of marriage ends in a divorce. Yep.
That's saying how the, how the cookie crumbles. Yeah. I'm divorced. Right. Single dad of twins. Um, you know, you have to have like values and mission alignment. You gotta like each other. People gotta be able to do what they say they can do. Like, I don't care where you went to school, where you work, what you look like.
I don't give a crap about none of that. In fact, these are things when we're, so we're building our prototype right now for the, Kabila co-founder matching app, and we're focused on inclusion, right? We're not, matching people based on those criteria. We're not even gonna show you a person's face in the beginning.
We're not because we don't want you to, you know, see my black face and be like, I'm not working with him. Well, you're a fool because I'm really dope, right? And we're trying to prevent that as best as we can. So, values, mission, do I like you? You know, pick a couple projects to see if you can work well together.
Um, you know, be patient. And, uh, like for me, this is not really, I don't know scalable answer, but pray about it. Seriously, that's what I do. I, uh, I pray about all the things, bro. I just ask God to tell me what to do. Great stuff keeps happening so.
[00:23:18] Chet: That's awesome. I mean, I, I think it is scalable, right? I mean, you just have to do it time and time again. You can't just, you can't automate it. You can't automate it to a, to a software.
[00:23:27] James: Yeah. Yeah. You can't put that in your business model canvas. But there were the proofs in the pudding right? Here we go. I could do that.
[00:23:34] Chet: New business idea. prayers.io. Automated prayer software.
[00:23:38] James: Oh, oh, look at that. I see all the people. Want to jot that down right now? Let's do it. Incredible . Um, so good.
[00:23:46] Chet: I want to take it back a little bit to the fundraising because I think it's important to talk about, cause you were talking about how, um, you know, you, you, you've raised some money working on raising around.
How do you approach fundraising and what works for you and. In addition to connecting the dots. And then what are some challenges that founders can approach when fundraising outside of just not being able to connect the dots, or first time they meet an investors asking them for money. What other things do you see there?
[00:24:12] James: What other challenge? What other challenges you said?
[00:24:15] Chet: Yeah, that investors, that founders typically approach when, when working with investors.
[00:24:23] James: You know, it's hard, man, because I feel like for underrepresented founders, it's a lot of the story goes particularly in the early stages, right? Because the story goes in the early stages.
Investors are betting on the jockey, not the horse. Um, I feel like in my experience so far that many of the investors I've talked to, they're they're not even paying attention to me as the jockey. They're like out there freaking flashlight all down my horse's throat. They're like, oh, look at that cavity in the back.
Oh, is that a sore throat back there? You know? I'm like, hello, I'm a super dope jockey. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Back up. I'm trying to look down this horse's throat here real quick. So that's, um, an issue for us. Um, but you know, you just, you gotta know your stuff, right. , um, just know your business, you know, have some data.
Like you don't have to know all the things. It's impossible. And, and honestly, if somebody doesn't have a track record in investing in underrepresented founders, and that's you, like, I wouldn't even waste my time talking to those people. You know what I mean? Because most likely they're not gonna, doesn't matter how dope you are, they're not gonna write you a check.
So you, if it is like you gotta fish where the fish are, right? I mean, that's what I did. I I, I created a spreadsheet of two groups of investors. One is, um, people investing in early stage startups cuz we're early stage and one in people investing in underrepresented founders. Created a list. I went through their websites, figured out why I think they might wanna invest in me.
This is a very time consuming process, but I promise you it's worth it. And then I sent that list to the people in my network to ask them, who on this list can they introduce me to? And I've been getting a bunch of meetings from that, bro. That's how we close our investment. I just told you about a little while ago.
[00:26:28] Chet: I mean, that's super powerful. Powerful, right? Like your network is your net worth. It's been said time and time again, and we keep seeing that. We keep seeing that model prove itself true. Right?
[00:26:37] James: It is true. And it's also true that underrepresented founders don't have a great network. Mm-hmm. . So, so I guess the next question is, well, how do you build that network?
Well, you gotta start somewhere, right? And I think, you know, connecting with the people you want to connect with, um, giving first. Showing up consistently adding value. It's a process. It's a marathon. It's not a sprint. In fact, being a startup founder, is like a marathon of sprints.
[00:27:10] Chet: Yeah.
[00:27:13] James: Oh
[00:27:14] Chet: God. It's, it's true.
I, I can vouch for that. It's probably, I, I might not be looking at things the right way, but I'm, I'm working on spinning something up and somebody asked me, well, when realistically do you think you'll be out on your own? I said, maybe 2025. I'm not in a rush and there's nothing wrong with that. Cause I know my timing, like similar to you, I have three kids like.
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not 25 years old with a great idea and no spouse, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not 33 years old with my kids in daycare all day long. You know, we homeschool. I got three kids, I got a wife that I support. Like my timing is different, but I'm gonna embrace that process and take my time as well, because come from a different background and, and different way of life.
So it's like there's nothing wrong with that.
[00:27:54] James: So Chet I got some really good news for you buddy. Love it. So this was an episode. This was an episode I did on our podcast. I think the title of that episode was one of our more recent ones. It was to Hell with Ageism. Mm-hmm. And there's research out there.
Research says that. Older founders are more likely to be like multiples, more likely to be successful than that stereotypical 25 year old hoodie wearing in person. You were just talking about living in their mama's basement. .
[00:28:22] Chet: Yeah. And well, it makes sense because that that person doesn't have that level of business experience.
And it, it's funny man, cuz you know, years ago when I was 25 years old and I had been in sales for a certain amount of time. Mm-hmm. , I would look at my manager and I'd go, I could do that job. You know, now being 33, looking back at that time, I. I couldn't have done that job. I thought I could do that job. I definitely couldn't have, and even as a founder, I probably think I could be the boss.
I look. I might be able to, and I might be able to hack it together and pull it off and leverage my network as it stands today. But I think by continuing to climb up the ladder, have different responsibilities, different roles, working at different companies and doing different things, I'm learning so much, you know what I mean?
Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with learning because I'm a, I'm a fairly risk adverse person. Like I don't mind going out on my own, but I want to make sure that I have all my, all my bases covered, cuz I got a lot of responsibility, you know? Yeah. That's a, that's a tough, I.
[00:29:12] James: No, I get that. I'm just nuts though.
[00:29:14] Chet: Sometimes you gotta be a little nuts.
[00:29:17] James: I started the foundation in middle of Covid. I mean, I was virtual schooling my twins at the time, and mm-hmm. Crazy.
[00:29:25] Chet: I love it. Well, it's, it's worked out so far and we really appreciate you, uh, taking the time today to stop by the podcast. James, what's one piece of insight you would leave with our listeners or something that I haven't asked you about that you would like to share with everybody listening to the episode today?
[00:29:41] James: Um, I, I, I, I would say, man, just, just have the courage to do what you came to the planet to do. You know, the, the world. Those gifts from you and you know, so Mark Twain said the two most important days in your life, or the day you were born and the day you figure out why. So go figure out why.
[00:30:07] Chet: I love that. That's a mic drop right there. Go figure out why. Uh, James, if anybody's interested in connecting with you or engaging with cab, how can they get in touch with you?
[00:30:16] James: Yeah, so you could visit join kabila.com um, so you could, if you looking for a co-founder right there, you could join our wait list to get notified when we launch our prototype.
If you're looking for an awesome community. Uh, so we have a community, it's $19.79 a. Um, in the community, we give you access to incredible investors and influencers and a startup ecosystem. Uh, we once a month pay for mental therapy for a founder. Uh, we have a partnership with Wiggin and Dana Law Firm, and, uh, we, we just, every month we open it up for five founders to get free legal services. We just had one woman got approved for $14,000 of legal trademark search services. Amazing. Hmm. Um, so join our community. You know, it's, it's $19.79 a month. Um, it's probably gonna be raised in the price soon, so get in while the getting's. Good. We're doing some amazing things there. And, um, yeah, just tap in with us there, man, and uh, get on a wait list and join our community.
[00:31:12] Chet: Sounds awesome. James. Thank you so much for the time today. Uh, for anybody who's interested in engaging with James or Kabila any further, as well as the Founders Formula Podcast and Hatchet Ventures, we will have links to all those resources in the show notes below. We thank you for taking some time outta your day to listen to this episode and we'll catch you on the next one.
Thanks, James.
[00:31:31] James: See you.