In today’s episode, we talked with Michael Aibel, Co-Founder & CEO at Singulairity.io, about how he went from a sport fisherman, to GTM leader, to a first-time founder in a technical space.
In today’s episode, we talked with Michael Aibel, Co-Founder & CEO at Singulairity.io, about how he went from a sport fisherman, to GTM leader, to a first-time founder in a technical space.
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Hatchet Ventures website: https://www.hatchetventures.com
Hatchet Ventures LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hatchet-ventures/
Chet Lovegren’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chetlovegren/
Connect with Michael Aibel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-aibel-2876b2b3/
Check out Singulairity.io’s Website: https://www.singulairity.io
Listen on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/36ub3fpy
Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/ystuxubt
Listen on Google Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/bdee8y9h
1, 2, 3, 4. Are you a founder, co-founder, aspiring entrepreneur, or just someone who loves to hear about how companies are built? Then join us as we talk with founders and CEOs who have been there and done that. Welcome to the Founders Formula Podcast. Sponsored by Hatchet Ventures, and now your host, Chet Lovegren.
[00:00:32] Chet: All right. Hello, welcome one and welcome all to the Founders Formula podcast, sponsored by the one and only Hatchet Ventures. This is the show that's designed to bring you the latest and greatest insights from founders and CEOs worldwide, and I'm super thrilled for our guests today. We just found out that we are actually pretty close neighbors here in Los Angeles, California.
So it's always nice to meet another person from my city, uh, feel that local love. He is a former sales leader and a tenured sales professional who's been in the game for quite a few years, a go-to-market specialist, and before the podcast, in addition to finding out that we're almost neighbors, we found out that he's actually a sport fisherman, uh, professional sport fisherman from back in the day.
So maybe we'll talk about how to catch that whale, right. Um, all pun intended, I don't, I don't have my high hat, little gizmo, my sound clip set up, but today, I'll fill it for you. I love it. Today we have founder, a co-founder, and CEO of Singulairity Michael Aibel. Michael welcome to the Founders Formula Podcast.
How we doing?
[00:01:33] Michael: Doing great Chet really appreciate it. Yeah, super excited to be here and yeah, this is awesome.
[00:01:38] Chet: Avoiding that, uh, that SoCal winter storm, we're apparently having that is still 90% better weather than half the country right now.
[00:01:45] Michael: I'll tell you what though. I, I, and you know, my four plus years of living out here now, I've never experienced the, uh, length of cold or winter quote unquote, that we're having right now.
I feel like, uh, you know, I go out and I literally need a jacket now, which is again, Shocking considering where we live, but uh, yeah, it has been, been chilly we'll say.
[00:02:09] Chet: Or how about like the four weeks of unending rain that we got that just didn't, I know, didn't seem to stop every single day. Its just raining and then we had a week of rain that was just absolutely torrential and wading through it horrible.
[00:02:22] Michael: It's, it's double bad too, cuz I don't know. He's down here somewhere. My dog. Um, he is the most LA dog, you know, you could imagine, right? He is actually. From the east coast originally, but lost his, uh, his ability to deal with the cold and rain very quick. He will not go outside when it rains, right?
So he will again, refuse to go outside, hold his potty for 24, 48 hours sometimes. So it can be a disaster for both of us. Um, so. You know, every time I look at the, uh, the forecast, I'm praying that there's not consecutive days rain, which I think we're actually about to get grace with. So yeah, fingers cross the bow.
[00:03:01] Chet: I gotta tell you though, he's, he's, he's not an LA dog yet until you start pushing him around in a little carriage. Cuz that's the thing I'm seeing a lot now I'm seeing people in's, hey, no judgment if you gotta push your doggie in a, in a little baby carriage, but yeah, yeah, yeah. I've definitely been seeing that a lot more and it's definitely tickled my fancies as I'm driving around town, I'm like, okay, like I actually have kids.
I know what it's like, but like, alright, guess we could start putting dogs in? I'm like, guess stroller companies are making a killing right now. Oh,
[00:03:26] Michael: I know it, I know it. Yeah. Not, uh, not to that point quite yet. So I'll, uh, I'll send you a picture. We do get there.
[00:03:34] Chet: Well, I love it. Well, Michael, um, you know, the show, you know how we kick things off.
First and foremost, of course. We're gonna dig into Singulairity how you founded the company. Obviously the problem that you solve and, and, and things of that nature. But, um, really wanna highlight you because you are, you are a hatchet, uh, portfolio company. Um, you work with Hatch. And you have this great story as a go-to-market professional and climbing the ranks in the account executive realm to senior AE and then even being a sales leader.
Um, I don't want to give away any spoilers, so I'm gonna let you kind of take the floor, but tell everybody about Michael, what's your story and how did you get to the point of being a founder and, and how did you develop that itch that you wanted to scratch?
[00:04:15] Michael: For sure. Yeah. So I do think it, uh, it plays a large role right.
In how I did end up getting here. And, um, you know, I've listened to obviously a bunch of these podcasts, right? And I do know you ask your guests sometimes sort of the, uh, 30,000 foot view or the Christopher Nolan approach and . Yeah. I would say my, my background feels more like a Christopher Nolan movie, uh, you know, every day.
Yeah, each day that goes by again, it's, I wake up and I'm like, did I actually live that past life? Um, so it definitely has, you know, kind of crafted, uh, you know, where I'm I'm at now. And, um, it's definitely eccentric, right? Not, uh, what you would traditionally think of as a, you know, Software salesperson, right?
How, how they would get their start. Um, so yeah, happy to dive in. Um, so going back from the start, right? Graduated from college, uh, in Virginia Small school called Roanoke College and. Being from the northeast originally, um, loved to fish, right? So Chap mentioned, uh, was a professional fisherman for a, uh, portion of my early career.
And, um, yeah, graduated from school and figured that's what I wanted to go do. So I moved down to Florida, um, north Palm Beach and ended up getting a job on a boat and traveled around a whole bunch for, uh, almost three years. So I was living. Caribbean got to live in St. Thomas for a while. Uh, took both through the Panama Canal and I ended up in the Pacific and hung out in Costa Rica, Panama, all over.
Um, My, you know, dream of doing that lifelong, uh, was cut short pretty quick when I, you know, understood the reality of, uh, of what it meant to be a lifelong fisherman. And, you know, looking at guys that were not a whole lot older than I was, that looked like they were in their eighties, uh, you know, wasn't really my, uh, my cup of tea.
So that coupled with the fact that, you know, just. Felt like the right thing to do and go and get into a more, um, I'd say normal, uh, career, right? Is what kind of pushed me out of that. Um, but that being said, you know, it did teach me how to say a lot of the foundation, um, or foundational skills, right, that I think apply to being a founder or.
A sales leader, whatever it might be, and, uh, you know, hard work, right? Putting in long, long hours and then actually seeing, you know, the fruits of your labor. And, you know, if you do all that prep work right at the dock at 3:00 AM reading Bates, and you go out and catch a whole bunch of blue marlin, right?
There's, you know, you're making everyone on the boat happy, you're excited. So, you know, I think a lot of the parallels definitely play, play true. Um, so long story short, Uh, left the fishing worlds. Um, moved back to Boston of all places and actually started, uh, my career in sales at a company called VM Turbo, formerly VM Turbo.
Now it's called Turbonomic. I believe they're required by ibm. Um, and it was a very technical sale. Um, they hired a lot of BDRs. And had an amazing training program in terms of actually getting us ramped up in terms of what the technology did. Um, you know, this was right on the boom of, you know, cloud infrastructure really becoming a staple in a lot of businesses, you know, operations.
Um, so. I was, I feel like, on the, not necessarily bleeding edge by stretch of the imagination, but definitely, uh, riding the wave right as it pertains to some of the changes that were going on in, uh, in infrastructure technology at the time and at BM Turbo, again, cut my teeth, uh, you know, 150. 250 cold calls a day.
200 emails, right? Just absolutely going for it. Um, but. Teaches you hard work and a lot of the foundational skills that continue to apply. Uh, after I left Vamp Turbo bounced around to a company called Datadog, um, which you know, might have heard of, and they do infrastructure monitoring. Um, It was a very small team, and I joined and they blew up.
We had, uh, a lot of very, very successful, uh, funding rounds. I started at Series A and by the time I left, they had just taken their series C, um, and were crushing. And so. The M turbos, um, I'd say enablement program around technology and just the whole ethos of cloud infrastructure coupled with the unbelievable sales enablement program at Datadog, right, is really I think what honed, um, a lot of the skills that I have and, uh, you know, I think are hopefully going to make Singulairity successful business moving forward, um, early.
So, From there bounced around to a few different startups. Uh, you know, being actually, interestingly enough, jet worked with a former company of mine called Funnel. Um, went there was one of the very early employees in the United States. They had just come over from Sweden, uh, and started to. really start their go-to market strategy here in the States and um, was, you know, again, able to get on the ground floor there, work very closely with leadership, um, and after funnel got into compliance.
And that's, uh, really what led me to Singulairity. So compliance, I would say is most people's least favorite word. Um, for some reason though, I love it. Uh, you know, it's. It gets me going, if you will. Um, you know, it's again, very dry stuff, uh, but it's very, very nuanced and, you know, I like those nuances. So I started at a company called Adaptable in the Compliance Space, and we were selling both a platform as a service, which dealt with, uh, hipaa.
Compliance for the most part, right? So basically safeguarding and AWS infrastructure in order to meet HIPAA compliant reg uh, requirements and regulation. And then we moved into a full-blown GRC suite, right? So really serving all the different arms. That a business would need from a compliance standpoint.
So governance, risk, compliance, uh, and from that point on, have stayed in the compliance space, uh, since, and again, that's what's pushed me to found Singulairity, right? Or what pushed me, um, is the fact that I've had thousands and thousands of calls with compliance professionals and the same themes ring.
Time and time again. Right? And, uh, it seemed as though there was no viable solution to solve, you know, the problem that Singulairity is trying to solve, which is, you know, user access management, user access, visibility, and eventually actually conducting user access reviews. Um, so, you know, uh, very, I'd say, uh, interesting past coupled with the continual, um, I'd say theme, right?
Appearing that compliance professionals were struggling with this. , uh, is really, you know, what sparked the idea, right? For me to go out and do something. And I do think, uh, being at, you know, the different companies that I've been at, uh, has allowed to, you know, immediately see a contrast, right? And how companies are run.
And, um, so taking the, you know, leap of faith and starting Singulairity, while it was obviously a risk and, uh, you know, nerve wr. Seemed like the right thing to do. Absolutely. Um, and, you know, does every day. So that's, uh, the long. Short, whatever you will, uh, of my past.
[00:11:49] Chet: I love the trajectory because yeah, you kind of, like you said, you got to see this great sales enablement program, then you got to go to a company that was experiencing massive growth and then you kind of bounced around a little bit, like you said, until you found something that really stuck.
And I love what you said, Hey, you know, appliances as dry as it can be. It's not everybody's favorite thing, but it really gets me going and you know, it makes me. Well, guess what? At one point, you know, client or customer record management was pretty dry and then here comes Salesforce. You know what I mean?
So it's, it's cool to see that cuz somebody's, somebody's gotta do it and somebody's gotta add that passion. I think that's gonna be a huge difference maker for you all as if you come in and you're the. Fun, sexy, vibrant, energized, passionate company. Right? That's kind of fighting through these other kind of dry, very mono, sexy topics.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. You know, you're adding some flare, uh, to a place in which they're, they're, um, could definitely use some flare and yeah, it was really interesting that we kind of found that, um, That common connection there of, you know, having worked at Funnel and I had done, uh, you know, some workshops with Funnel that was kind of a little fun.
Reminiscing. Yeah. Um, but I'd love to hear so, so I want to dig into something for a second here. as a sales leader, I've scaled a lot of people that were never in sales into an S D R role, and then into an AE role. So military vets, um, hospitality workers, teachers, they all have different skillsets.
Athletes. It's another one that come mm-hmm. into this and they take some of those, you know, teachers are great because they're great at educating people on the value and. You know, if I can get a, you know, fifth grader to understand the material, I can get a VP of marketing to understand the material, right?
Um, athletes, they understand hard work, perseverance, right? Training, you know, military vets, they understand adversity and they have good process, like, so everybody draws something from their past into what they're doing, and specifically as it pertains to being a founder. , what is something that you learned in fishing that you think you still take with you today?
Like what's a trait you have from being a professional sport fisherman that you go, you know what, as a founder, I still, I still have that trait and it's still very relevant in what I do.
[00:13:57] Michael: Yeah. So there are a bunch, uh, this is funny, you asked me this. This is literally a question I gotta asked in my first interview ever.
Uh, cuz you know, they looked at my resume and my resume was first. , uh, and they're like, okay, you're now selling software. Right? What traits carry over? Um, I think the biggest one, you know, and this is I think a perfect, uh, description for, you know, the personas that you were just describing is coachability, right?
So, If you are coachable, right? And you can take, uh, advice from people and actually listen to it and implement it, and you see the, you know, success. that implementing said advice can, uh, can bring, um, you know, it just continues to, I'd say, resonate and build on that coachability. And so that was one of the biggest things in fishing, um, that, you know, really was, uh, was foundational for me.
Right. I came from the Northeast. Uh, we fished. for Giant bluefin tuna up in the Northeast, which is a completely different style of fishing than what I was wanting to go do, which was fish for blue marlin. Um, it's like, uh, you know, orthopedic surgery versus brain surgery, right? Um, blue marlin fishing is tough. You know, you're running an eight line spread.
You've got all these different bates colors. It's insane. And we didn't use any hooks. It was all teaser fishing. I didn't have any idea what I was doing when I got on this boat. Um, luckily, you know, I had an amazing mentor who took me under his wing and, uh, I listened to everything he said. . Right. And um, you know, that got me to the point of being, I wouldn't say, you know, a good or great mate by any stretch of the imagination, but I could hold my own.
And, um, you know, it was again, in a very short period of time that it all led or stemmed from, uh, being coachable. Right. And, you know, I think that. Was picked up early in life playing sports, um, and, you know, needing to listen to people and, you know, understanding sort of the aspects of a, a team. Mm-hmm. . Um, and you know, I think that's one of the biggest carryovers and still Right.
Uh, you know, now having obviously moved from being an SDR to a founder. , um, I still take, you know, coaching tips every day, right? From podcasts or advisors like Hatchet, right? So it's really important to surround yourself with people that honestly are smarter than you. Um, I think the old adage, you know, if you, uh, are the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.
It's definitely true. Uh, so, you know, I'm a constant learner. You know, I'd say very curious. Uh, The coachability with that. Um, definitely helps.
[00:16:50] Chet: I was really hoping you would've said patience. Cause I've been fishing in man though, Well, patience. But I, I like coachability aspect of it. No, I'm just playing.
You end up losing your mind.
[00:16:58] Michael: Yeah. So patience. Patience becomes insanity. Uh, you know, one of the two, uh, you know, if you're staring at a, uh, you know, eight line spread all day, no bites, you definitely start imagining blue marlin back there. Um, and you know, I definitely have. Shots or said, Hey, left, you know, left long when there was nothing back there.
Um, so yeah, patience is tough. We were talking earlier, you know, the old adage, uh, a bad day at fishing beats a good day at work, I think is untrue. Mm-hmm. bad day at fishing. Sucks . Yeah. I've had plenty of bad days at work that were way better than a bad day of fishing. Cause I don't have to clean a 70 foot boat at the end of it.
[00:17:37] Chet: Yeah. Uh, that's, that's an adage probably said by someone who doesn't fish that much either.
[00:17:41] Michael: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
[00:17:42] Chet: Feel the same way about the golf one. I mean, if I have a bad day, I might maybe, yeah, yeah. If I have a bad day at golf, I'd, no, I'd much rather have worked that day. Cause now I'm kicking myself from the head of why I even wasted the time to go golf
[00:17:53] Michael: Yeah. Also, also why I've, uh, you know, definitely pulled, pulled the, uh, Field report on golf . Yeah. Later in life. You know, it's like I, I go out there and just get frustra. So, yeah, let's, we'll keep that for the professionals. I like watching it just on the play. Yeah.
[00:18:08] Chet: Especially if I need a nap right? Um, oh yeah.
So let's, let's talk about Singulairity. So you kind of talked about, you saw this need in the space, um, having worked there in that space since 2019, specifically at, um, adaptable. And you've kind of moved through the ranks and you did some other things. And then you were in a, a, you know, go to market leadership role and then, Like, how did this, all of a sudden, I mean, it's, it's a scary leap, you know, like all of a sudden it's like, okay, I'm gonna cut ties with working for someone and I'm just gonna go do it on my own.
And this is a problem I know that I can solve. So let's, let's talk about Singulairity. Like what is Singulairity? What's the problem that you solve? Who it's in compliance, but let's dig a little deeper. Who are you solving that problem for? And then I'd love to also just learn a little bit more about. You know, what was the triggering event that actually got you to move forward with being a founder and, and moving forward on this vision.
And then we'll also talk a little bit about you and your co-founder, Andrew, and how the two of you meet in that, that synergy or what I like to call, like the Venn diagram of where, you know, your go-to-market expertise. In his technical expertise overlap.
[00:19:07] Michael: It's the old, uh, yeah. Symbiotic relationship, right?
Um, for sure. Yeah. So Singulairity, again, I touched on it earlier, but the, uh, problem that we are looking to solve, uh, Really surrounding user access. User identity, and how companies both manage user access. Um, how they look at user access from a visibility standpoint. How they conduct workflows around user access, like onboarding someone off, onboarding someone, a access request, right?
Everything in between. Um, And how they actually conduct user access reviews. Uh, for audits like SOC two, ISO 27,001, there are a whole bunch of different compliance and regulatory standards that companies adhere to, right? That require a periodic review of user access. And, uh, when I mean user access, I mean basically looking at every employee that company employs, uh, the applications that they actually have access to, why they have access to set applic.
What data lives in that application and what access do those employees have access to? Right, so it's this giant interconnected web, uh, again, of employees, applications, services. You have s SSO providers, you have HR platforms. You have, again, all your ancillary applications like aws. And the big problem is that nothing talks to each other.
Right? So typically you have siloed data living in different spots and. When, uh, a user access review is due, or, you know, an access request comes in, onboarding, onboarding, whatever it might be, uh, typically refer to a spreadsheet or some sort of manual method, right? In order to, number one, kick the workflow off.
Number two, understand what they need to do during that workflow and subsequently how they actually record and log right, the, uh, evidence that they find. the problem really exacerbates as a company scales as well. I mean, you know, Singulairity is two people right now. It's myself and Andrew. We do have people that help out from a, a product standpoint, but they aren't what I would consider a full-time employee.
And we own, I think, 47 applications right now. Right. It's just two of. So, you know, as a company scales, right? Imagine a 2000 person company with 2000 applications and each one of those applications has, I don't know, anywhere between five and 50 different role types, right? Understanding who has access to what, why it becomes a disaster.
Uh, so. Again, there's really no mechanism on the market right now, uh, to solve this problem for a larger company, uh, in real time. And, you know, with, um, I'd say high accuracy. So looking to solve that problem I think is really gonna be our bread and butter, uh, as far as our go-to market strategy. So that's kind of the customer profile that we're focusing on, again, is the, not necessarily enterprise, but larger scale organization because that's where the problems felt the most.
Um, you know, these reviews can. Ages weeks, if you will. Uh, and again, there's really no visibility into anything. So, you know, people get terminated and still have access to critical infrastructure. Or I saw a tweet the other day, um, from someone that was like, uh, left a company six years ago and they're still paying for my hurt school membership.
Right? So, uh, in situations like that, you know, that's a little more, uh, topical. I'd say critical infrastructure. But if someone's terminated and they still have access to GitHub or aws right, it could be very bad. So, um, there are, again, a whole bunch of different sort of, uh, layers to it, right? But we're looking to tie everything together, give companies visibility, and uh, you know, do a whole bunch of really slick stuff on top of that.
[00:23:03] Chet: So it sounds like this was really something that you had subject matter expertise on in your years working in the compliance space, which I think is awesome. Cause we just had, uh, vine Slav in a portfolio advisor at Hatchet on the podcast and he said one of the key things not only is someone who's raised capital, but someone who invests myself is I think one of the best things first time founders can.
Demonstrate subject matter authority and why are you the best person to solve this? And it's repetitive. I'm sure everybody's heard it on the podcast before when people talk about investing, oh, I'm demonstrating this, or talking about that, or I'm saying this in my story about why I'm the best person to solve this or why we are if it's, you know, co foundership.
But time and time again, I think that's just proof that it is. , like, you are the best person to solve this because you've been in this space. She didn't say, oh, there's a need in this space for e-commerce, uh, SMS card abandonment software. Right. But I've never worked in d TOC a day in my life. So it's like, yeah, okay.
You know, . Exactly. It's so, what are you doing there?
[00:23:58] Michael: Yeah. No, I think that's definitely true. Right? Um, You know, just again, really loving compliance over the past however many years it's been, uh, you know, has led me to be really interested in the problems that, uh, that reside in it, in the space. And, um, you know, I definitely identified this as a trend, right?
That I noticed time and time again talking with customers and prospective clients. Um, and so, you know, I think the combination of identifying a problem. Um, you know, being able to, again, have seen the contrast of a bunch of different companies and how they were run, um, along with coachability, uh, definitely has led Singulairity to the point it's at, right?
And actually being able to provide value, um, because again, I can identify a problem. You know, I can understand that. Yeah. I've talked to a lot of people that have dealt with this and it sucks for them. That being said, you know, I'm not conducting user access reviews on a daily basis, monthly basis, whatever it might be.
Uh, so, you know, I think, uh, a large part of the product, um, direction, especially early on, uh, really was set forth through talking right to, again, prospective clients, people that are going to be using singular. And hearing from them what is gonna be valuable. Right. And so we're providing value at every step of product development, right.
As opposed to building something that I think is gonna be cool. But, you know, someone that actually uses the software, uh, subsequently doesn't value quite as much. So that's been, you know, I'd say paramount getting us to the point that we're at now, um, is really listening to the customer. Right. And what they want.
[00:25:46] Chet: And you hit on something really important that some people don't even get their second time around. I've seen. Um, but it is that, it's called product market fit. So you have to make sure that your product fits the market. Not that it fits you . Exactly, exactly. I see a lot of people where it's like, sounds like the product fits you.
You use yourself as a vehicle in which you understand the problem. And can communicate it effectively, but it's still gotta fit the market. Let's, let's talk about that. Cause I feel like that's a and, and you can go as far deep on this as you want to, or you can just gimme the, the, the email template you use if you want.
But how do you set those calls? Like how do you get people to give you their time to benefit you and your discovery? Are you approaching it in that information gathering as also like a pre. Perspective sale in the future. Like, Hey, is this something you would buy so that then you have someone later on down the funnel when it's ready or you have your MVP, um, to deliver?
Or is it merely like, Hey, I just want to get like 30 people that I respect in this space who are dealing with this problem to gimme their time and maybe you offer. Lunch or free coffee, like what does that outreach look like to get that time? Cause I think that's such an interesting thing that most founders don't do enough of is outreach to the people that they're trying to solve problems for, to get their eyes on it.
Because maybe they are trying to do it like a sale and so they feel weird or scuzzy about it cuz they're like, I feel like they think I'm gonna sell 'em something. Like how do you approach it? Yeah. Like let's, what's, what's your advice there for founders? For sure. So
[00:27:12] Michael: I think, uh, one of the biggest, um, advantages, right?
That. Really, I'd say solve that problem for me personally, um, is the rapport that I've been able to build, you know, over the countless years that I've been selling compliance software. So, um, I'd say I have a generally laid back approach when it comes to how I talk to customers, you know, during a sales process.
So I've never been, um, keen on, you know, forcing. Down someone's throat. They don't want, um, I'm not, that would be like really horrible cell phone salesman or car salesman. Um, I would just be like, yeah, okay, no worries. Uh, so, you know, I've always kind of taken a more laid back approach, um, and that has allowed me to build some, I'd say really strong relationships with people that I've sold to in the past.
And, uh, I always, you know, would jot down, I I, I've been keeping a running list, you know, for the. past I'd say like three and a half years. Um, you know, everyone that mentions user access reviews, they go on a list, right? And, uh, that list has obviously grown quite a bit. Um, so, you know, during the very early stages of Singulairity and, uh, when I was going through my own sort of product discovery prior to, uh, bringing my co-founder along, um, I reached out to a lot of these.
People that I had sold to in the past and, uh, you know, kept the list relatively short, right? Cuz you can get into a world of asking, you know, too many people's advice and then you get the old, you know, too many cooks in the kitchen kind of scenario, right? So you're not really sure which way to go. Um, so I kept the list pretty short and, uh, again, really leaned on the Rolodex, if you will, that I had, uh, from back in the day and.
I'd say luckily enough the, uh, response was abundantly positive from everyone that I reached out to. Uh, so people were happy to get on a call. Um, you know, again, this was a problem that they had been facing at some point during their career when I talked to them. So the problem. resonated somewhere. They had been drugged to the glasses, you know, again, some stage.
So the, uh, the salt kind of was poured back in the wound, if you will, probably when they opened my email. Um, so they're like, oh, cool. Right. So, uh, the list of, uh, people that I reached out to, again, very receptive. And, uh, what we've done since is basically hone that list, um, more. As each stage of product development right, actually is, uh, center production.
So, you know, we're again focusing on large themes still cuz we're sort of in the MVP stage. Um, so not necessarily trying to get bogged down with like little nitty feature and functionality requests, but focusing on big swaths of themes, right? And value. Um, and the, I'd say four or five. , uh, product or design partners that we talk to, um, most consistently, right?
Really, again, uh, I would say help, um, reinforce, right? Those big swaths and those themes and the way that we go about product discovery, right? We don't necessarily. , um, sit them down and we're like, Hey, what do you want on user access to your product? Right? Because again, that can be very distracting. They could say, oh, I want this or I want that.
Uh, what we've done is again, taken in feedback, made improvements to the app that we think, you know, again, are gonna solve that problem that the design partner mentioned, and then we'll bring it to them, show it to them, and get their feedback right. Um, and so that's been really. Right from a discovery standpoint.
So we just basically say, Hey, would this be valuable? Right? And then let them. . talk Uh, so I think the biggest thing yeah. Is just listening.
[00:31:14] Chet: Yeah, I love that. Cause I think a lot of people are hesitant with how do I reach out? Or even if they're technical founders. I think that's really good advice for any of your technical founders listening who haven't had to do some form of cold outreach before.
Um, . Even if you are leveraging your warm outreach, your Rolodex, your contacts, you're still at some point gonna have to do some cold outreach. And I think having that approach is, is really insightful Michael. So thanks for sharing that. Um, we're for sure, we're, we're winding down here in terms of time, but I want to ask you this question cuz I find it really interesting, especially as someone who has a very similar background to you in the go-to-market space prior to, um, working on their own venture.
When you're an ae, when you're a senior, ae, when you're a director of sales, especially if you're working at a startup or if you're working even at a series A company, you wear a lot of hats. So you're familiar with that. You, you understand what that means? Mm-hmm. , when you become a founder, you're almost wearing all the hats.
Yeah. And so what I would really like to hear from you is, what is the thing that you are, what is the hat that you have to wear now that you've never had to wear before, that you're actually surprised how much you enjoy it? And why do you think that is?
[00:32:24] Michael: That's a good one. That's a very good question. So, yeah, I mean the, uh, the old hat juggle, uh, is, yeah, no, uh, no stranger to my head, if you will.
Uh, I'd say all of the previous sales roles that I've been at have been with generally smaller companies, right? So we're doing a lot from designing processes to workflows, um, all the way to marketing. Uh, you hit the nail on the head, right? Founding a company. It's a very real, very real realization when you wake up every morning that like, if I don't work on this, no one works on this.
Right? Um, so that is, uh, that is one piece that is definitely nerve wracking at times. But again, um, I'm a huge fan of challenge. I'm a huge fan of exploring new topics. Um, so subsequently I'd say product design, uh, ui UX design and product discovery has. Uh, the thing that has tickled my fancy the most over the past few months, and it's been awesome.
Uh, so really the foundational step to founding Singulairity was me jumping on Figma and just starting to put blocks together, being like, could this be an app? Right? And kind of just moving through a very, very rudimentary, uh, UI ux design. And from there just kept honing Kept getting better at it. To the point now where I feel like I'm, I'm definitely not a wiz at Figma by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm good enough to be dangerous, uh, good enough to, you know, burn a whole bunch of hours designing something, uh, very small for the website, if you will.
Um, so that, uh, that has been the thing that I've loved most. Right. Um, I. Based on my past. I'm a huge fan of work with my hands. I love problem solving. I love building stuff. Uh, so if I get to go on a computer and, you know, my job is building software, it's, it's awesome. Tons of fun. Um, so, you know, the old, uh, kind of theme with founders, they stay up late, you know, long hours in the early days of Singulairity.
I. Would look at the clock and it'd be like three, 4:00 AM and I just have been on Figma for the past 12 hours, and I'm like, you know, so focused on it. Absolutely loving it. And, uh, yeah, it's, it's a blast. So I think that, um, that has been really cool. A really, really fun area to, uh, To dive into.
[00:34:57] Chet: Well, I'm incredibly envious of you because I don't care how much Figma sold for to Adobe.
I can't get behind it and I hate U I U X building . It's one of the reasons I actually went to go find a technical co-founder, cuz I'm like, you know what? I know what I'm good at. I'm not gonna try to learn this. Some people can comprehend it. This is just like, and it's crazy because I create a lot of content and I designed a lot of it and I do a lot of content editing, but it's just like when it comes to that stuff, all the wire framing and everything, I just, not from me man.
Yeah, I tried. I gave it my best.
[00:35:25] Michael: It could be a little tough, but you know, I've, I've always loved drawing, right? Since I was a little kid. Um, loved working with CAD software, building model, rockets, airplanes, remote patrol cars, motorcycles, right? So, you know, this is just a new medium basically, of doing just that.
[00:35:43] Chet: That's the best drawing I can do. , for those of you just listening, I, I, I just drew a stick figure. That's the extent of my drawing capabilities.
[00:35:51] Michael: I was a good stick figure. It was very, very convincing Hangman. Um, hangman made it away. Uh, but yeah, you know, I think that's, uh, that's been one of the coolest areas to, uh, to really dive into is it's just a new medium right. For me to, uh, to mess around with. And, um, yeah, it's been a blast. It's a lot of fun.
[00:36:08] Chet: I, I think just in talking to you as well, I can, I can hear that. That you probably express a lot of what you're solving for in your experience in building that out too. So I, I can see where that would be relevant for you cuz it's an avenue for expression of your product and what you're trying to solve for in terms of problems for your, uh, for your customers.
[00:36:30] Michael: Um, for sure. My co-founder might not like it. Right. I'll show him you ui, you exercise and he is like, dude, calm down. Right. Yeah. We have a a long way to go before we're doing that, but I get so excited. I'm like, I know this is a desired state. Put it in that folder. Exactly.
[00:36:44] Chet: Yeah. It's blast. This gives you something to shoot for, man.
[00:36:47] Michael: Yeah. One thing too, just wanna mention real quick, uh, you know, he's not here today obviously, but my co-founder as well, we didn't necessarily get into it, um, a ton today, but, uh, yeah, Andrew Wright found him as well faced at a, uh, past job that we both worked at together, and he's been, uh, instrumental right in the strides that we've made thus far.
So he's coded away as we. and, uh, yeah, it's, it's been awesome working with them.
[00:37:12] Chet: Yeah, that's fantastic, man. Yeah, we, we, we dove into a lot of topics today. We didn't dig too deep into the, the co-founder, uh, topic. We do have a lot of great topics on the Founders Formula podcast and previous episodes about co-founder synergies and how co-founders work together.
I love it, man. Michael, this has been a great conversation. If people want to connect with you, um, how can they get in touch with you and how can they learn more about you in Singulairity?
[00:37:33] Michael: For sure. Yeah. So, uh, feel free to drop me an email. Um, we did just put a couple job postings up on LinkedIn, so my inbox has been flooded.
I need to figure out how to filter those out. But, uh, feel free to drop me a line@michaelSingulairity.io. We've got a website as well with, uh, a bunch of different forms to reach out. Uh, with Singulairity io uh, we've got a LinkedIn page, Singulairity, and it is spelled a little, a little, uh, interestingly, it's.
S I n G u l a i r i t y, and there's a play on words that ai, which, uh, again, my founder, uh, Probably would like me to keep out of the conversation, but desired state. Uh, so Singulairity with an ai,
[00:38:21] Chet: You gotta set the, you gotta build the foundation now, man, because you can't put a roof on a, on a house without a foundation, right.
That's it.
[00:38:26] Michael: There's lot, there's been lots of brain waves and brain cycles gone through the, uh, uh, thinking of the name Singulairity, right? And it's, yeah, all types of fun marketing. Product marketing, uh, themes that we've got got planned.
[00:38:40] Chet: I love it. That's the, that's the goal. Jeff Bezos always says, if I hire someone and they're thinking about 12 months down the road, they're the wrong person for the job.
The things we do now, we were planning three years ago. So, exactly. I love it. I love that. I love that you're thinking that way. Michael, this has been great. Um, absolutely. I thank you to you and also to, of course our listeners, um, for engaging in the podcast this week. We do release episodes. Every Tuesday as early as 6:00 AM Eastern on all your favorite podcast platform.
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Like us on LinkedIn, like the Founders Formula Podcast on LinkedIn -Subscribe. Rate the podcast, give us all your love, give us all our engagement. It helps us keep this podcast going and spreading these insights to founders. Um, from founders who are doing it currently. Uh, Michael, again, appreciate the time.
Thank you to all the listeners and we'll see everybody on the next episode.
[00:39:47] Michael: Thank you so much. Great to be here. We'll see ya.