In today’s episode, we talked with Sarah Porter, Co-Founder & CEO at MedDefend, about how her tenure as a salesperson at early-stage startups gave her the insights she needed to start her own company.
In today’s episode, we talked with Sarah Porter, Co-Founder & CEO at MedDefend, about how her tenure as a salesperson at early-stage startups gave her the insights she needed to start her own company.
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Hatchet Ventures website: https://www.hatchetventures.com
Hatchet Ventures LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hatchet-ventures/
Chet Lovegren’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chetlovegren/
Connect with Sarah Porter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-porter-7227381b1/
Listen on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/36ub3fpy
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[00:00:00]1, 2, 3, 4. Are you a founder, co-founder, aspiring entrepreneur, or just someone who loves to hear about how companies are built? Then join us as we talk with founders and CEOs who have been there and done that. Welcome to the Founders Formula Podcast. Sponsored by Hatchet Ventures. And now your host, Chet Lovegren.
Hello and welcome one. Welcome all to another episode of the Founders Formula podcast. This is the show that is designed to bring you the latest and greatest insights from founders and CEOs worldwide who have been there and done that and are there in doing it right now. As always, this episode is brought to you by our sponsor, Hatchet Ventures, our partner in the startup space.
If you have not checked out Hatchet Ventures, please do so at www.hatchetventures.com. I'm your host Chet Lovegren, and I'm super excited for today's episode because, We have a former educator turned sales professional who's been in the sales game for quite a while. She's also a mentor at one of our Hatchet portfolio companies, Us In Technology, and she's a member of the Pavilion community here talking about her own company, that she's the co-founder and CEO of named MedDefend.
Please welcome to the show, Sarah Porter. How's it going welcome to the show.
[00:01:27] Sarah: Hi, Chet. I am so excited to be here. I am a huge fan of the show and you, so really excited to chat today.
[00:01:35] Chet: Yeah, it's gonna be awesome, especially because we come from the same space to some extent, not the educator space.
I will say though, it's really cool, I always bring this up to my sister because she's been an educator for about 12 years. And when we were in high school, we were both in FEA together. If you recall what f e A was, it was Future Educators of America. . And I always bring that back because whenever I go back to my parents' house, I look through the yearbooks and I see, our group photos.
I was always in there with her and I say, it's always crazy cuz what you were in, in high school, you. Wanted to do and you actually went up and did it. So many people do so many different things from what they were doing in high school, but I was That's funny. It's like you actually went, you were part of this group and you actually became an educator.
That's awesome. But yeah, I know that there are huge sales foundational principles that you get as an educator that you probably took into your experience with you, but, , I want to hear it from you. This is the part of the show where we do a deep dive into our founder's background and what they've do in doing up to the point of their foundership.
So let's start, give us a story. You can either give us the 30,000 foot view, or you can give us the what always call the Christopher Nolan narrative. Whatever quote . Let's give us, tell us a story about Sarah.
[00:02:46] Sarah: Yeah, no, yeah, I you hit the nail on the head, there are a lot of principles that kind of flow from education to sales and, my story is not a rare one.
There are a lot of educators moving into, kind of corporate America or the tech space and it's really exciting to see obviously disheartening for some of the reasons that they're moving over. But there are a lot of principles. that do move over. And yeah, I started as an educator. I was preschool in special education and I absolutely loved it.
Unfortunately both of my knees dislocate and so had to get out of the classroom unfortunately. And that's where I began my sales career. It was actually on accident that I got into sales. So I owe it all to a woman named Carrie Taylor, who was my first boss outside of teaching.
And I worked at her state farm office and I was just supposed to be, a customer success person working on, claims and helping people with their payments. And she saw something in me and said, Hey, you're great on the phones. You're really person. do our bank sales and let's see how you do.
And also, I'm gonna enter you to see if you get, this Hall of Fame award. And I was like, Oh, okay. . And with her help, I did get the Hall of Fame award. I ended up doing the most bank production in our territory, which was a couple states that year. And so I really owe it all to her for really fueling that passion in sales.
And now I'm just all about startups. I've worked for startups mainly throughout my career as an early stage team member in the sales space and really building processes and teams from the ground up and being able to see what it takes to really make a startup. Yeah, that's a little bit about my career thus far.
Former teacher turn sales professional that loves startups and dogs.
[00:04:31] Chet: And I can tell you cuz I don't know if you know this, but I worked at State Farm for about five years. , I actually had agreements with different agents that helped fuel my. Standup career I was pursuing when I first moved to LA because I could just go to an audition or go to a standup class and then go do a bunch of business walks for whatever agent in the territory I was in.
So I had a lot of agreements with different agents for business insurance, and I can tell you State farm banking products are tough as heck to sell. Sarah knows what she's doing because those things, those vehicle loans, those credit cards, yes. Those checking accounts, the paperwork, they didn't even, they didn't even have a good process for it
So it's like if you were slinging bank products, you were doing something special at State Farm. So kudos, kudos to you cuz I know that is there's a reason I stuck with commercial insurance because it was a lot easier just to get the policy papers and 'em off to the underwriter and then let them tell us what the quote was gonna be, at the premium.
The bank products were no easy feat. No that's really cool. So you were working at these early stage startups or as a salesperson, probably sometimes even a founding salesperson. What's something you learned in that background that you think helped you as a first time founder?
Other than just the experience of working at startups and seeing what the sales motion is like, and obviously, but what's the finer print there? What is something that you think you walked away with as an understanding when you went to go start your own company, whereas, Where you're like, Hey, I can speak from this experience.
This is gonna give us a leg up, as opposed to others who haven't had this experience.
[00:05:57] Sarah: I think, I was talking to someone about this the other day, and I don't wanna knock, any companies out there that are larger, but I feel like at startups there are no scripts. You have to be agile and move with the wind and you're not so much focused on, of course you're focused on your quota, right?
Obviously, but you have this kind of grander picture in mind of. My revenue that I'm bringing into the company is gonna lead to this next raise, and it's gonna lead to us getting more employees. And so your mindset is just a little bit different, working at early stage startups with what you're bringing to the table and what impact you're making.
And so you think about this is the process that I'm gonna try. I might have to switch it in two weeks. And we don't really have time to dilly-dally, right? We've gotta , we've gotta get this revenue and we've gotta get a series A. So I think. I think if you are an early stage kind of team member at a startup, you understand to an extent what it takes to be a founder because you are seeing, what you're bringing to the table, make that huge impact for the company.
Obviously there are a lot of learning curves when you do it yourself, but just having like the vision ingrained in you is something that I'm very grateful for that I had that experience, a early stage startup team member.
[00:07:12] Chet: Yeah, it really is. My most recent experience. I came from a company that had just raised a bunch of money and just the way people, even the way they acted, the urgency, the level of urgency they did not act with as opposed to the company was like, , we want to get around to funding by the end of this year.
Especially like when I was working with Three Pale Central and we got 75 million in BC funds, we were busting our butts for 18 months. It was like, Hey, we're trying to raise money. We need to get these numbers up. You know what I mean? We need to do more. Whereas before it was like, The other company was like, we raised a bunch of money.
All right, what do we do? I don't know, let's talk about it in a month. , it's money doesn't just last forever. Like it's wild. You just got all this money, let's put it to work. You know what I mean? We're just sitting around thinking about things. So that's awesome. Yeah, I think that's really valuable because.
You're gonna be in that position at some point yourself, and you're gonna have to lead people to understand those numbers also. When you're going for your series A and you have to be able to, lead your sales leaders and your marketing leaders and your customer success leaders to lead their people appropriately.
Let's talk about med defense. , you've spun up this company, you're the co-founder and c e o. You have another co-founder and another co-founder that you just landed who's gonna be, I think you said on the more on the technical side. Yeah. So let's talk about what is MedDefend, what do you do?
Who do you serve? What's the problem that you solve for them? And then how did this kind of come about? How did you get wind of this problem and decide this is something that I want to solve for people. And then obviously we'll talk about how you met your co-founders. But let's first talk about MedDefend and the problem they solve.
[00:08:38] Sarah: Yeah. So I, I think when I say healthcare is broken in America, anyone who is listening is gonna have a different problem come to mind because there are so many, unfortunately. But the problem that MedDefend is gonna solve is really bridging the gap between doctor and patient, right? So patients are going in, I have some stats, 176.9 million views for the hashtag medical gaslighting on TikTok, and 7.8 billion for hashtag chronic illness.
And Patients are going into the doctor's office, they're feeling like they're not being taken seriously. They're being overlooked. They don't really understand what's going on with their body. They just want answers sometimes. And on the flip side, we've talked to doctors, right? And they've said, Covid has inundated us with more patients.
We do not have the time to sit with patients like we used to. It has to be in and out, and we don't feel like patients have the resources or education to effectively tell us what's going on. They can only. make a judgment based on how you physically are presenting in the office. So maybe you had cold feet and hands two days ago, but they don't see it now, so they don't see it as a problem.
Whereas the patient, they're super frustrated of, why are you overlooking my symptoms? And so we wanna bridge that gap. We wanna be the translator between patient and doctor because the time to diagnosis in America is far too long and it is costing patients and healthcare. C. Far too much money in time, right?
Healthcare companies are having to pay, , tens of thousands of dollars over years for a patient to finally get a chronic illness diagnosis. Usually I think the average is about five or six years. And so we wanna trim that down, right? We wanna save people money, save healthcare companies money, help doctors and just be that kind of translator and bridge that gap.
So that's what MedDefend's mission is to do, is to fix that problem in healthcare.
[00:10:28] Chet: That's awesome. How did you come across this problem? Was it the knees? Was that , what kinda led? You had a recent experience, but you're totally right. I was doing a sleep test and it took me a month and a half to get results.
To go from and it was a little thing I wore on my finger four nights in a row that results were done, but I had to call the office four times to get the doctor to call me back and gimme results. Then when he called me back, he called me back at 7:00 PM on a Wednesday when I was trying to put my kids to bed.
It's what is this? Like your admin time? You're just doing a little follow up one night, you're staying late at work. But it is it's, it is really broken. But like how what specifically drew you to this problem and made you go, I gotta solve this.
[00:11:07] Sarah: Myself, unfortunately. Five years ago I was in my early twenties.
I was living life large in Chicago, working for a startup, traveling all of the time, and suddenly it felt like it came to a halt. There was one weekend I was going to a concert with my cousin and I couldn't feel my legs the entire time, and I was like, That's weird. And I started going on that journey because of that symptom and I was going to orthopedics, I was going to endocrinologist, cardiologist, neurologist time and time again, and everyone was saying, oh, your symptoms, they're abnormal, but your test results.
Are coming back completely fine. And that's something that a lot of patients are told with chronic illnesses is, oh, your lab results are normal and there's a lot of underlying issues or tests that they're not doing, a blood test or a simple MRI isn't telling the whole story. . So I kept going to doctors.
I kept getting told, as a younger woman, oh, maybe you just have anxiety. I was actually overdosed on anxiety medication by one doctor I saw who was, I don't think any longer practicing. And so put my body through a not great process over the past five years. And it. Finally took me getting a surgery on something completely different from my illness for them to say, oh yeah, your heart rate and your blood pressure are really off.
We should really look into that. And I'm like, I've been saying that. But they didn't wanna put me under unless I had it checked out. So surgery was on a Wednesday. I finally met the cardiologist that changed my life that Monday. He said, Sarah, you. . And I was like, what the heck is that ? And so through research of looking up what POTS is and how to treat it, I just kept running into story after story of it.
It affects women mostly of saying yeah, it took me 5, 6, 7 years to get a diagnosis and I could have been feeling a lot better if I had gotten it sooner. And yeah, unfortunately it was a personal tale that kind of got me here to say there has to be a better way. There has to be a way that, people can.
Get a diagnosis quicker and not spend as much money or time fighting this.
[00:13:14] Chet: That's incredible. And I'm probably gonna be one of your early customers. Cause man, everything you're saying is right up the alley with what I had the same thing, endocrinology. I didn't even know that was a thing when I was, I would go to a doctor and they'd do, oh no, your blood works fine.
You have your metabolism is okay. But it's I have a nutritionist telling me like, I don't understand why it, this is what it is. Like we're tracking your journal and everything. And then one day she goes, Don't worry about a doctor. Go see an endocrinologist. I'm like, what is that? I didn't even know.
And then she's no, there's a person that can strictly like work with you to test your metabolism. I was like, yeah. Cause I've doctors for years saying, no, everything's okay. Everything's okay. Your blood work is fine. Your blood work is fine. I always hear that your blood work is fine, but it's like there's gotta be more to it.
Cause you just don't end up this way. You know what I'm saying? This just doesn't happen like this, something's going on.
[00:13:59] Sarah: Yeah, and you don't have the medical background to know Hey, actually, can you do this one test or this one image that I think could really, drive me to a result?
We haven't gone through medical school to know that. So that's where, Meen comes in to be that gap and really advocate. for the patient to, know what to say, to educate them, to advocate for themselves essentially.
[00:14:20] Chet: Yeah. I don't know if I can say this or if we'll have to cut this out, but it sounds like you're actually doing what WebMD was supposed to do before they started taking on sponsors.
[00:14:28] Sarah: I, it's funny you say that because an advisor of ours this week said, you're that step up from WebMD, right? , and we wanna be one that doctors like, . .
[00:14:40] Chet: Yeah. Yeah. Not just focused on how much ad space you can sell. Yes. . So let's talk about your co-founders.
This is a great, this is a great tool. This is a great idea. You're solving a very important problem that's very relevant for a lot of people. How did you meet your co-founders? How did this come about and how did you all decide that you wanted to work on this together?
[00:15:00] Sarah: Yeah, great question.
Jeremy Mitchell is our coo o and a very good friend of mine. We were former colleagues at another startup and also work together at us in technology. And he has a background. His wife Danielle actually has her own company black woman in clinical research. And so he has a really strong background just understanding.
Clinical research, and he also worked for a company that focused on healthcare and employer benefit. So just understood that side of it and kept seeing the problems arise. And he also just knows that, minorities in America are treated differently when they go to the doctor. And so when I presented him this idea, he said, I'm absolutely in.
How we met Alex Ross was, a very interesting story. I know it's a kind of battle when you don't have a technical co-founder to find someone that you trust, right? And so we went to LinkedIn. We were in stealth mode. We posted a C T O position and we said, Hey, , this isn't paid . We don't have money right now.
We're bootstrapping this thing. And we met Alex who actually shared a similar story. He was an ultra-marathon runner, and one day he couldn't walk up the stairs and the doctors told him, Hey, just stop running. And he said no. I think, something's going on. I wanna be able to run. And it was a thyroid issue.
And so when he heard the mission, he said, Hey, I'm gonna help you bootstrap. , I'll put in my own, capital, I'll bring in engineers that I know to really build this thing out until we, can blow it out of the water. And just seeing how energized and passionate he was about the mission and what our tool is gonna do, it was a no-brainer to bring him on.
[00:16:36] Chet: That's awesome. And you said Alex is your technical co-founder, right? Yes. Yep. He's our cto. And that's such a creative way to do it and such an interesting way to do it. Cause there's, having a co-founder is becoming more and more common. I mean I'm sure it was back in the day as well, but you don't really hear the word Facebook and think about the three, four other people that were founding members of it, I guess you could say.
Somebody had capital, somebody had coding experience. You just think of Mark Zuckerberg. So I think we've right, just gotten in this habit of thinking of single founders, but we'd forget about all the people that are really at play. So maybe it's just more relevant now because more people are getting that.
Exact co-founder title. Yeah. But it is so important, right? To be able to share those responsibilities and share that passion and vision with someone. And so I think that's really awesome and you doing two different things I've seen. Number one is leveraging past working relationships, which is awesome because you've worked together, you know how each other interacts and where your heads are at and what your talents are and what you can help each other be accountable for.
But then you also have this way of Let's post a job for it and let's be upfront with the expectation. Yeah. To the point where this person was like, not only am I okay with that expectation of no pay, I'm going to put some of my own money into it to then pursue it because I believe so thoroughly in this passion, which is, depending on where you're at, if you're a founder listening and you're looking to bring on a co-founder, or you're someone with simply an idea and you're trying to bring it to life there, there are tons of different ways to do things, and I think this is a great example of two different ways separately that you've done things that.
that worked out really well for you all. So that's really cool. I love hearing that story. Now I know, I'm sure, I know you guys are building a lot and you're doing a lot. I'm sure you're also thinking about those investor conversations and how we put together our presentation deck and how we plant those seeds.
We've had several founders on the podcast James Oliver Jr. Being the first one that really came to light and said specifically in his best clip, he said, if the first time you're talking to a an investor about. It's about money. You're doing something wrong. So I know that you all are probably getting out there being on the front lines, having conversations with investors to merely get feedback or show them what you're working on and get their input.
How are you put that together? Especially like having go-to-market experience as a salesperson. And a consultant. What's going through your mind? How do you structure it? What kind of insight can you give someone who might be putting together a similar deck at this stage? And how are you leveraging your previous experience to make it a kick ass one?
[00:19:08] Sarah: I think the first thing is you have to find people who are going to give you genuine feedback, right? So you can't do anything or move forward unless you get feedback. And we are a portfolio company of Hatchet Ventures and so we have amazing advisors that we've been able to be given through that.
And Dalton has been just phenomenal in working with us and sharing the same thing of you can't go to people and just ask for money first. You're burning what he calls social capital. He talks about it a lot and I. Fully agree because in sales it's the same thing, right? If you're, you see them all the time, all the messages are, all the posts on LinkedIn saying, gosh, I just hate when salespeople message me asking for a demo.
Or, if you're having that ask right away, people get annoyed and it's the same thing. You, you wanna ask for feedback first. So that's the first thing is, ask and ask for feedback as much as you possibly can until you're blue in the face and take what resonates and leave what doesn't.
When you're creating a deck, I think the other thing that we've been really focused on and got a lot of feedback on is telling the story. So we're raising a pre. , round. And a lot of that is going to angel investors or people that we know on our network. And it's an emotional sell right now, right?
It's selling us and it's selling the idea of what we are going to accomplish, right? We don't have facts and figures or revenue that we can show. And so how do we portray us as the best team possible to go forth and accomplish this mission, but also how do we, do that emotional sale and say, Hey, here is the mission and the vision of the company.
We think we can achieve it, believe in us, believe in what we're gonna solve. And so yeah, it's really just about storytelling, about what the mission is for the company and also how we as a team are going to achieve that, if that makes sense.
[00:20:51] Chet: Yeah. It's really important and I love that you said that cuz Veem Slavin brought that up when he was talking about his investor approach on the podcast is at the, anything before Series A, mostly, maybe even some. In seed, but a definitely pre-seed. There is no roi. Your hypothesis is the potential future outcome, but your real ROI is the story and your experience because you're not gonna have unit economics and you probably don't even have an M V P just yet.
And so that's awesome that you're really focusing on that emotional side of it, that gain that benefit and what investors can look for in terms of potential of working with you. Yeah. , how did those conversations go? You're a salesperson, right?
You've done cold outreach. What, I know you're talking to people that you probably have relationships with, but what does that first conversation look like for you all? What does that message look like? Hey, I'm merely just looking for feedback and then seeing if maybe they ask about investing, or are you straight up asking, Hey, I got something I wanted to float by ya.
We're open for investors right now. What is, what does that first touch look like? If you don't mind sharing with.
[00:21:59] Sarah: Yeah, it's absolutely asking for feedback. So we know that not everyone that we reach out to is gonna be in the spot where they're ready to invest. And so it's really asking for feedback and if they do believe in the mission, but they can't invest right then, we didn't burn that as Dalton would say, social capital.
But we're able to ask, is there anyone in your network who might be interested in taking a peak as well? So it's really about building kind of this mega network right now. Because we didn't have the fortune to do a family and friends round, like we're going to angels. And a lot of people listening might be in that same position where they're like, I hear people do friends and family, on Shark Tank.
People are like, yeah, we raised from friends and family. You might not be in that position and that's okay, but it's about building your network up so that when those asks, are right the tip of your tongue and you're ready to raise that capital, you have the people to go to who believe in your mission and are willing to speak on it for you.
So right now it's just about asking for feedback and really building that network up.
[00:22:54] Chet: and are you all walking through a deck that you've worked on or do you have a prototype that you're walking people through? What kind of collateral are you showing in that conversation when you're asking for feedback?
Or is it merely a coffee chat where you're just sharing the idea and the story with them? And maybe a little background of you and your co-founders? .
[00:23:12] Sarah: Yeah, most of them have been coffee chats. We do have a deck. We're on version three, so if you're out there listening just know that like you will have many versions of the deck as you get feedback and that's okay.
And so yeah, sometimes we share the deck. Alex has worked really hard on getting us a stellar product roadmap that we can show as to what we have now, how people will be onboarded, what everything is gonna look like when it works. And so we do have a lot of that kind. Backend stuff that we can show.
And he just brought on an intern who is his son, to work on our u i ux so we can show that too. Yeah, some people are curious to see the product, but again, more people are interested in the mission and how we're gonna solve this problem in healthcare that the question we get a lot is, do people know that this exists?
If you haven't gone through it, you don't know that it exists. So really it's about educating people on the problem first and then getting that feedback on the product and building the network from there. .
[00:24:09] Chet: Yeah. And you said something interesting about that deck being on version three.
If you're listening to this podcast and you end up being one of the people giving feedback two months from now, we might be on version 10 by then, right? . Exactly. Yeah, , that's how it works. That's really cool. And I love that you're approaching these conversations from a point of really, I just have to educate people on the problem first.
Cause they may not realize how severe it is. I think the what is it, 179 million searches on, what was the stat you gave about the hashtag. Hospital gas lighting or medical gas light.
[00:24:40] Sarah: Yeah. On TikTok, 176.9 million views for the hashtag medical gaslighting and 7.8 billion for chronic illness. So people are Yeah. Are searching and sharing. Yeah.
[00:24:50] Chet: And that's wild. And that's a very relative audience with how well content creation works out for companies to be able to reach. Yeah. If they're already looking at that on TikTok, that to me is almost more important than any Tam SamSam that you might be able to come up with right now.
Is that There are people looking for it. It's all about eyeballs and awareness, and that's a pretty staggering stat. We're coming up on time here, but what I wanna wrap up with is being a first time founder and being in the middle of Pree and getting a lot of feedback on what you're working on.
I'm sure there are a lot of happy moments. Because you're seeing your vision come to life. You're a founder, you're an entrepreneur. , but what are, what's one of the toughest things you've had to face so far in terms of being a founder? What's one of the biggest challenges you've had and how did you overcome that?
If you wanna share that with the audience.
[00:25:38] Sarah: Yeah. I think for a lot of first time founders out there, the reason they're starting the company is because they've seen the problem or been through the problem that they wanna solve. And so a lot of the time I've had to detach myself when I'm getting the feedback of, people aren't gonna know this problem exists or how are you gonna achieve this, right?
Because I've been through it. Just like we talked about, it's. Educating people on the problem and then getting them to give feedback on the product. And if you are a first time founder out there, I applaud your passion and you going to start your own company. Just know that sometimes you'll have to detach yourself and, remove that emotion back just to get the feedback you need to move yourself forward.
And yeah, I think just, the last challenge of course is money, right? But I think, myself and the CTO Alex we've really bootstrapped it to now we've put in a lot of funds of our own and I'm really proud of us. For that. Just know if you're a first time founder listening, there are a lot of free tools and resources out there for you.
There's a lot of law firms that will work for you that will, won't take money up front. So make the system work for you and don't be afraid to go for it. And then just remember to sometimes emotionally remove yourself from the problem that you're fixing just so you can get the feedback you need to move forward.
Yeah that's sound advice. One of my favorite books is that, I forget the author, but Emotional Intelligence 2.0. , that's a really good book. I had to read it in sales cuz it's, that happens a lot too. When I was in sales, you'd be working on a deal for so long, especially when I moved into Enterprise and then all of a sudden it's like, we worked on this thing for seven months.
What happened? Oh my goodness, this sucks. Sarah, this has been a great episode. It's been really informative and I'm really excited to follow you in med. Med defense journey and see what comes of it. If people are interested in connecting with you, what's the best way to do that?
Yeah, absolutely LinkedIn.
Please feel free to shoot me any messages with questions or if you wanna follow MedDefend, we've got a LinkedIn page two, but always open to chat.
[00:27:44] Chet: That's awesome. And if you are also interested in engaging with the Founders Formula Podcast, Hatchet Ventures, or myself further, we will have links to our social profiles in the show description below, as well as access to Sarah's LinkedIn and her company information.
You know the drill every week on Tuesday at. 6:00 AM Eastern. We are releasing a new podcast episode, bright and early for everyone to enjoy. And then at the end of every month, we release our monthly highlight, which is the best of the best, four minute almost a trailer like episode with some great background music and some of the best clips from our founders that are joined the show in the previous month.
You can get the podcast everywhere. Spotify, Apple, Google, Stitcher, Breaker, iHeartRadio, please like and subscribe, follow, give us a rating, whatever they're asking you to do on whatever podcast network these days. It seems like it's always changing. You should be like and subscribe. Now you can follow and rate and all these other things but we appreciate all the listeners tuning in. We'll see you next week. And Sarah, thank you so much for your time today. We'll talk to everyone soon.
[00:28:43] Sarah: Thanks, Chad.